Harley question...

[scooter123]

It's a visceral thing. My brother bought is wife a Harley Softail classic and I've taken it for a spin a time or two. That big old thudding V twin is something that you feel in the bones and the torque off idle is quite different than with most bikes.

As for the windy twisty stuff, back around 2005 or 6, Harley had a version of the Street Rod that featured mid mount controls, BIG upside down forks, and Brembo rim brakes. I test rode one and it was quite capable in the windy stuff, not up to what a Ducati or one of hot crotch rockets but capable enough that a good rider on the Street Rod could embarass an average rider on a crotch rocket. In addition it had enough power to go toe to toe with an older street great like Honda's V65 Sabre. About the only fault I could find was the instruments were mounted so low that trying to see the tach had me feeling I was looking for my naval. Sadly, it didn't sell well enough to stay in the catalog, if it had I might have one parked in my garage. Geared up right, it would have made for a superb Sport Touring bike.

 

[2fingers]

If you have to ask, You probably will not understand !

 

[amazingflapjack]

To adress the question, my experience with new or potential future riders is "The Harley Mistique", because when I ask them what kind of bike they are going to have, and their eyes glaze over as they stare off to the horizon and say, "a Harley" I ask them if they have ever ridden a Harley, and if the answer is a rare yes, I ask if they have ridden anything else, and almost always, the answer is "no." I have also talked to riders who, after riding Harleys for years, and never riding anything else, happened into the saddle of, usually a Japanese bike, and were mystfied by all of the things non harley riders take for granted. But there is a separate group of Harley riders that I think are really meant to ride them and live the Harley life style, which is different from the generic motorcycle lifestyle, in my view. These folks can wrench on them, no the parts going back decades, and just are where they are alive. But I don't think even many of these folks could put up with a Sportster! I have been riding for 46 years now, so I am not describing the huge mass of posers that fill the ranks of Harley owenership. But, just as some have already implied, to each his own; one brand does not have to be bad in order for the other one to be good. My desire would be that everyone would ride what they wanted, and shut up about everybody else, but that's just not the natural man. Oh, and I wave at everybody out there. If it has 2 or 3 wheels, or even these rigs you see now with "training wheels" and there is a motor on it, I wave. Some of the scooter and moped folks are a little surprised when I wave, but that makes it more fun! I usually get a friendly wave back, even from crotch rockets, but not so much from Harley riders. See, I don't ride a Harley; it's a single crank pin air cooled V-twin, but not a harley. It does kind of look like a harley, as it has had some custom work done. Maybe that's why I get the Harley waves I get? Flapjack.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Ok, maybe age has something to do with it. Maybe not.

Around here, Harleys seem to be a status symbol. Mainly with older guys who long for thier younger days. Or simply, just maybe now they can finally afford one. Midlife crisis maybe?

I couldn't say for sure. But again, around here you see very few guys over 40 on a crotch rocket and very few younger than that on a Harley.

But the same could be said for cars, guns, motorhomes......And in some cases, women.

 

[mkk41]

He's right. Although the reason for that saying is that there is no logical reason anybody would want one. Well, there is one. Chicks!

I've owned my '78 Shovelhead since 1980. As a means of getting from point A to point B...ummm... let's say there are better tools for the job.
But they're fun to ride. They have class. They have history. They're bad***! There is a brotherhood of the old school.

My beef is with the RUB (Rich Urban Bikers) that found out the Evo Harleys didn't leak oil & were actually pretty reliable. They wouldn't get their precious manicured hands dirty turning a wrench. So they cashed in on the "Bad Boy Biker" image of the '60's & 70's. Bolt on a couple grand of useless billet & plastic chrome garbage & call me "bro." I don't think so, "bro."

I worked as a Harley wrench for a few years & got to ride all the new stuff in the 90's. The rubber mount engines are the absolute chiznit!

Try 'em. Ya might like 'em. As for all the imports, they might fool a high school girl for a minute.

This is me in another life...

Yep , for some of us the Harley craze of the 90s was as gut-wrenching as disco. Dealers were charging as much as $5000 over MSRP , making people wait on a list for up to 2 years , and they were falling for it. Local dealers were selling their first years V-Rods for sealed bid! Harley made their dealers build fat and overpriced 'biker boutiques'. And the first thing these newfound 'bros' wanted to tell you when they saw your 'old relic' is how much they spent on their new bike.
When I started riding , the local Harley dealer gave his good customers a T-shirt if ya spent $50-100 or so. It was free advertising. Now , T-shirts are $50. Nowadays , dealerships won't work on older , or non-current models. Till recently , ya couldn't get parts for older bikes , yet they preach the timelessness and heritage and adorn clothes with Knucks , Pans and Shovels. For awhile , they were suing every other independant shop and aftermarket manufacturer for bogus trademark and use of the name.

But those whom the gods would soon destroy , they first make proud!

Harley stocks are in the tank. They can't seem to give bikes away. They axed the Buell line of Harley-motored sportbikes. Showrooms have 2-3yr old leftovers. Prices for used bikes are a joke compared to 10-15 years ago. Dealerships are closing up like they did in the 70s. Yups who bought these overpriced Harleys as 'investments' can't sell them for half of what they paid.

 

[Smith357]

I never understood the HD religion either, Ive ridden my whole life and had just bout every brand of bike between my legs at one point or another. Folks say if "If you have to ask, You can't understand." I say if you can't explain it you don't under stand it either. I can explain in detail why I loved my old Airhead with 220k on it.

 

[ladder13]

Big, slow and can't get out of their own way(alot like the riders themselves, too ). I wouldn't want it any other way myself.

 

[ridewv]

Whoa! I've never seen a motorcycle packed like that. I don't believe I'd follow behind it very close.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well... If you're trying to figure out why people buy things for the way they look and feel in their hands... you came to the right place.

For some reason I just can't picture Dennis Hopper buzzing around on a Yamaha RD350 with Born to be Wild playing in the background. Just sayin...

 

[vrichard]

H.D.

I had 13 H.D.motor cycles,so I guess I like them,my current H.D.
is a 04 Heritage (won`t have any thing newer then 06)
Dick

 

[mkk41]

Funny how we Harley owners are getting flogged for being brand loyal , on a forum based on , brand loyality!

I'm sure there are Ruger owners who can't see our infactuation with an antiquated 100yr old revolver when there are stronger , more modern designed and manufactured wheelguns like the GP-100 and Redhawk are available for less money. Why spend hundreds , sometime thousands of dollars for a gun that is too delicate to use or it loses it's value and spends it's life in a safe?

 

[frbeall]

I like them because they're made in the U.S.A.

 

[mkk41]

I like them because they're made in the U.S.A.

Harleys or S&Ws?


As loyal as I am , I get real ticked about how the modern Motor Company sells the "Buy American" song. Since the 70s , Harleys have been assembled in the US from more and more imported parts. And if ya ever been to the factory , you'll see mostly Okuma machinery.

Heck , they ain't even "Made in Milwaukee' anymore. Big Twins , Softtails and Touring bikes are assembled in York , PA. Sportsters and Dynas are made in Kansas.

 

[Sprefix]

It's all in what you want.........for me it represents FREEDOM!!

I own a Harley Nightrain. I have owned several other bikes to include Honda, Kawasaki, and Victory. They all subtle differences from each other. My "COOL" bike was a Victory Cory Ness Vegas Jackpot. It was an incredible bike 'til a drunk wanted a much closer look at it. My Harley is the most fun bike I've owned. It is balanced and easy to ride in all kinds of "road" conditions. It has bookoo torque and a few ponies to back it up. The H-D commands attention! They sound great with certain pipes...,and yes, LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!!! H-D is not what it was some years back, good and bad. The good is they don't typically leak liker they used to. the bad is all the hype and the prices. I got mine from a friend for a deal because he is my friend. And he has several other H-D's. I took the engine from a 96 C.I. to a 103 C.I. with drag cams. I run 104 octane for fun and it is a handful when you dog-off-in-it. The sound and feel are what is addicting to me. That being said, my Victory was three times what a H-D is. Victory has a 100,000 mile motor in their 50 degree V-twin design. They still run strong at higher mileage also. They are longer than a H-D so they are a little less agile in town. My "Ness" had a 250 MM rear tire. That makes for some low speed handling issues. It was a beast though, out of the box. 42-46 MPG and 130 MPH if you wanted to. I clocked 138MPH on the GPS fully loaded with tour pack, luggage rack from Kewlmetal, windshield, and tankbag. The other manufacturers offer nice bikes also, but they don't rumble. A Ducati is close and incredible in sound for a race-style bike. I guess a way to shorten a lengthy explanation would be if you drive a Subaru or a Prious for anonymity, you won't like a Harley. If you want to own your personal space and say "Don't bother me", you will get the H-D thing. Life is short....,Own it!!

 

[cal50]

Harleys or S&Ws?


As loyal as I am , I get real ticked about how the modern Motor Company sells the "Buy American" song. Since the 70s , Harleys have been assembled in the US from more and more imported parts. And if ya ever been to the factory , you'll see mostly Okuma machinery.

Heck , they ain't even "Made in Milwaukee' anymore. Big Twins , Softtails and Touring bikes are assembled in York , PA. Sportsters and Dynas are made in Kansas.

You left off the suspension / shocks (Showa of Japan), Carb's (Fuelie/carb units are Keihin owned by Honda), much of the Screaming Eagle stuff is made in China, and the new coat my bud just got was made over seas.

Like I mentioned before I like ALL bikes and the Harley is unique. It's just not all made here like it was many years past.I think the motors are all US made.

 

[29aholic]

Been riding all of my adult life, and most of my youth. I have ridden other brands but always go back to HD.
Bought this 1999 cop FLH in 2003 with 1300 miles on it. 63000 miles, 4 sets of tires, 100's of gallons of gas and lubes later it is still going strong with only a few minor hiccups over the years.

About 2005 I gave it a new color as I was tired of the white.

Needs to be redone again, but this baby gets rode not rubbed on!!!!

 

[dasnake]

repost

i put this in awhile ago, look at the detail, look at the engine.

this is what i ride.

 

[mkk41]

You left off the suspension / shocks (Showa of Japan), Carb's (Fuelie/carb units are Keihin owned by Honda), much of the Screaming Eagle stuff is made in China, and the new coat my bud just got was made over seas.

Like I mentioned before I like ALL bikes and the Harley is unique. It's just not all made here like it was many years past.I think the motors are all US made.

Yep , forks and shocks are Showa or Kayaba. Hitachi starter motors. Keihin carbs since the late 70s , but the '95-'01 fuel injection was Magneti Marelli of Italy. They currently use Delphi (GM) . The later motor cases are made by Mercury Marine. But there are forgien componants throughout. They have taken a lot of flack and some componants once made overseas are back to being domestically produced. Electronics were once NipponDenso , but now are from Datcon.


Just like the internal lock and MIM parts , old Harley owners are resistant to change just like old S&W owners.

 

[hamr56]

I think South Park has a cartoon about this.

 

[5-Shot]

I'm the one who started this thread and after watching the responses for a while, here are a number of my impressions. A few here share my failure to see Harley's appeal, but most don't. That's about what I expected. Many of you simply stated your devotion to the brand without offering a word to help us "outsiders". But a few offered some helpful insights.

Reasons that people like Harleys:

Kanewpaddle suggested it might an age thing. At 68 I guess I'm just not old enough yet. Back a few years ago when I used to ride the infamous "Tale of the Dragon" once a week, one of the fastest (and most anti-Harley) riders was a 70+ rider named Alvin.

Fishslayer (from California, I looked) says for chicks. Maybe in California buddy, but the Harley Babes I see in the tourist Mecca of East Tennessee, on average, are pretty frightening to behold. If you lived here, you'd ride a Ducati. Trust me.

Sound was mentioned a lot and I have to confess it is nice, but I could do with a little less of it. My wife had an SV650 with a carbon fiber muffler that sounded the just like a Harley until she redlined it. A four cylinder bike with an after-market exhaust sounds pretty good too. To borrow someone else's metaphor, I like radial engines too but Merlins don't sound bad either.

Torque's good. Can't argue with that.

RideWV cites best chrome, paint and components available. To that I would add the best metal casting on the engines that I have ever seen. (Looks a lot better than those MIM parts from S&W.) That's one of the most helpful answers I got.

I can't recall who said that a Harley is very comfortable out touring; even better than a Gold Wing because of the low rpms a cruise. That just never occurred to me because I have zero interest in that kind of ride. I have a good friend who is a serious Iron Butt rider and it just sounds like very bad dream to me. Still, that was very helpful answer that I now understand

The best answer of all came from my neighbor (sorta) ChattanoogaPhi. He couldn't imagine Dennis Hopper buzzing around on an RD350. You know, neither could I! As a matter of fact, one of the Harleys I rode was a big engined Sportster in the early 70's. While I didn't care for the bike at all, I have to confess that it made me just want to hop off it and kick somebody's @##.

I find a few responses simply puzzling. mkk41 has had much more to say than anyone else and while it is clear he truly loves Harleys, I still haven't gotten a hint as to why. Perhaps it's because they are not sports bikes ridden by those dreadful sports bike riders. For the record, I have never had a sports bike and didn't like the few I have ridden.

Nor do I think I called anyone and idiot because I "can't see any logic in another's taste". If you tell me you like Pepsi better than Coke or Picasso better than Monet, that's taste and there is no point going any further. On the other hand, if you prefer a Corvette to a Lexus, to me, that implies some decision making process that goes beyond simple taste. I simply asked Harley fans to help me understand...just as some of them have done. If someone asked me to explain why I prefer K/L frame S&W's to any other hand gun, why my favorite rifle is my Browning Traditional Hunter, why my banjo is a Bart Reiter, why I'm typing this on a Mac or why I drive an Acura TL, I'm pretty sure I could give a reasonable answer.

I was fully prepared to completely discount his answers until he confessed a soft spot for a Yamaha FJ1200. That's something we can agree on. I bought one of the first FJ 1100's to make it into Memphis years ago. It is my favorite all time bike and I have spent a lot of time trying to duplicate it in more modern form. The closest I've been able to come is my Suzuki Bandit 1250.

Finally, I simply found 66TAS's remarks repugnant. By reading my few posts here he was able to deduce that I "like vanilla" and that I am "practical". Oh really?

 

[dasnake]

heyyyyy 5-shot

bet'cha did'nt know wat'cha started did'ja, as for the explaining, i can't, i just do, i like the feel, i like the throttle response, i like the ride, and mine isn't a newby by any stretch. i also have ridden a lot of bikes, brit, jap, etc, i got the hog in '85 and haven't looked back, and you are right about the inline 4's and a four into one trap, i had that on an xs1100 and it sounded so fine when the rpm's were winding up, that's all i can say, but thanks for the great chance to talk and hear others talk on the same subject, don't get much of a chance to talk with a bunch of motorheads very often.

 

[29aholic]

Here is maybe one reason since I am one of the ones that didnt really give a reason.
Heritage one of the oldest American companies still going. I can work on my bike (if neccessary) myelf without a lot of special tools (for the most part), custom options...there is WAY more aftermarket stuff available for Harley than any other brand. Resale is way better too as far as holding it's value.
OK...maybe more than one reason.

 

[ladder13]

I rode Harleys because then I get to wear skull caps, earrings, brain buckets, boots, cutoff jean jackets, leather vests, grow a goatee, smoke a cig while riding, and just look bad ***. Be authentic, ya know.

 

[Smith357]

Whoa! I've never seen a motorcycle packed like that. I don't believe I'd follow behind it very close.

They way I ride the twisties you won't get too close.

 

[ridewv]

They way I ride the twisties you won't get too close.

Probably not, I just putt along , wait for me at each turn off.

Do you still have your R90S? And do you ride it much?

 

[mkk41]

I find a few responses simply puzzling. mkk41 has had much more to say than anyone else and while it is clear he truly loves Harleys, I still haven't gotten a hint as to why. Perhaps it's because they are not sports bikes ridden by those dreadful sports bike riders. For the record, I have never had a sports bike and didn't like the few I have ridden.

?

Hmmm , tried to water it down a bit , guess more is needed.

Obviously the American infactuation with personalizing their motor vehicles escapes you.

Can't compare the dedication or involvement with building and owning a cool custom 1932 Ford street-rod with a buying a showroom stock 2002 Ford Taurus.

Or can you? They both just Ford cars , right?

I also like the history involved with Harleys , just as I enjoy the history involved with old guns. I like to study and 'play with' all models and years of Harleys. I go to Antique Motorcycle Clubs of America (AMCA) field and swap meets just like I go to guns shows. Many of my friends own Harleys , but not all my friends 'get it' either. I like the 'hands on' involvement with Harleys. Old Harleys can be called 'maintenance intensive'. Yep , gotta show 'em some love. Kinda like mechanical foreplay! True , most of todays manicured metro-sexual 'men' don't have any mechanical aptitude and we call them credit card bikers. They're in it for the image of something they will never be.
I've built and restored Harleys (and a few Indians) nut by bolt , piece by piece. Build my own engines and transmissions. My Pop was an old hot-rodder and racer. Had a '32 Ford V8 emblem tattoo. He also had Harleys before he had me , one of which I still have. I am a toolmaker by trade , and have been making custom Harley parts since back before there were catalogs full of designer parts.

There's also the camadery.

There have been groups of like-minded people , getting together , inspiring each other and doing this/that with their Harleys as well as Ford Mustangs , Chevy Corvettes/Camaros/Chevelles , street-rods , pickups , and other vehicles since the early days of wheeled transportation.

Ya just can't do these things with todays Japanese bikes. Most are obsolete after 5 years. Not much can be done other than painting the plastic bodywork and a few motor mods. No real room for personalization. They're appliances. Much like a refridgerator. Use 'em up and throw 'em away.

For the record , there are groups of enthusiasts no less dedicated to Ducatis , MV Agustas , Triumphs/Nortons and other British marques , as well as classic Kawasaki KZs and GPZs , Suzuki GSs , Honda CBs and Yamaha XS. But the oriental bikes came ashore while most Americans still had a bad taste for things Japanese. Planned obsolesance and not much of an aftermarket means no parts after so long. Never saw anyone with a Suzuki tattoo though.

Harleys are the last real historical American motorcycle company , such as it is.

I know a few die hard Indian lovers who are even more fanatical. Their numbers are smaller , but their passion is no less.
And I'm talking about REAL pre-1953 Springfield Mass made Indians.

When was the last time ya pulled up to an ice cream stand (or bar) on a Sat nite and saw a nicely preserved , perfectly restored or well customized 1930s or 40s or 50s Honda or Suzuki.


Probably still don't get it though , huh?

 

[mkk41]

They way I ride the twisties you won't get too close.

But I'll eventually come across your crash site.

 

[mkk41]

I rode Harleys because then I get to wear skull caps, earrings, brain buckets, boots, cutoff jean jackets, leather vests, grow a goatee, smoke a cig while riding, and just look bad ***. Be authentic, ya know.

Don't forget the beer belly!

 

[therevjay]

Outside of the styling which you either like or you don't, the appeal of a Harley (or any other V twin) is lots of torque which in everyday rideing is really more important then HP. Also a low center of gravity which makes a heavy bike seem light.(it's nice for short people too) I still like my old Triumph better. But I can see why others love Harleys so much.

I remember a little ryme my stepdad used to say.

"Hogly Fergasons are made of tin, ya ride 'em out ya push 'em in.
You'll never wear out a Indian Scout, or break a Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks to take hard knocks, but a Harley'll bring you grief!

 

[5-Shot]

OK mkk, now we're starting to get somewhere.

First the points we disagree on: I reject your assertion that I don't get the American infatuation with motor vehicles. I worked my way through high school dismantling 40'd and 50's v8 engines. I've raced off road motorcycles a bit (hare and hound woods races), SCCA road races and autocross. I've flown recreational aerobatics and ran snow mobiles through the High Cascades for years. I had a 65 GTO Tri power as a young man and have seat time in such exotics as a Porsche 930 and a Ferrari Testarossa (the mid engined one) and most of the lesser sporty cars. While I doubt I have your mechanical skills I've put in my time keeping a Bonneville running and have rebuilt 2 stroke moto X engines.

I contend that just because its old, it doesn't mean it's good. It just means its still around. Several years ago some of my buddies, who were overcome with nostalgia, obtained the dream rides of their youth. They came home with 60's vintage 409's, 421's and 389's. You can guess the names that go with the numbers. We all "oohed and aahed" for a while and drove them a few time times and then confessed that they were really awful by current standards. A Chevrolet 409 might cool, but there's any number of dull current crop cars that will run off and hide from it on a mountain road.

Now for the good part: My wife read your post and kept saying "you know, he's right" and indeed you are. If you consider Harleys a focal point of tuning, restoration, modification, history and socialization I actually get that. You are exactly right on about Japanese bikes. Like Peter Eagan, I consider them essentially "sealed units". A few years ago I decided to reset the TPI on my Yamaha FZ1. The instructions read like they came from Microsoft. "Raise tank, locate a certain connector, turn on key, disconnect connector, reconnect it, your tachometer is now a TPI indicator, adjust tach needle to 7000 by turning TPI adjustment screw, turn off key....." You get the drift. It was a lot more fun to grind 3 angle valve jobs in small block heads. Still, you have to admit. These Japanese bikes do run and ride great and the first scheduled valve check (and probably no adjustment will be needed) comes at about the same time that a 60's vintage Bonnie would be due for its second major overhaul.

So, yeah, I do get it. You and I are into bikes for different reasons, but now I understand why you like Harleys.

All the best,
Ed