Has anyone developed .45acp load with Green Dot?

[model 49 rick]

I loaded 150 rounds of .45 acp with Green Dot & a 230gr FMJ bullet. I use a powder thrower that has metal sleeves with a set volume, and you choose the sleeve that gives you the proper load for your cartridge. For different powders you calculate how many grains that sleeve delivers using a VMD factor (volume measuring density-I think). The VMD I used for Green Dot was from a Lee Precision data chart that was published in the 1990's. I never thought to update that chart until recently, when I wanted the VMD for a powder not listed on the old chart. I noticed that the VMD for Green Dot on the new chart is a lot lower than on the old chart. The old chart said .1366, and the new says .1272.

This makes a charge delivered from a .760cc sleeve a good deal more grains than I previously thought.

.76/.1366 = 5.56 grains .76/.1272 = 6.02 grains

My Lyman loading manual says that 5.4 grains is their recommended max load with a 230 grain FMJ bullet. Other reloading data I have found on line concurs. However, I have found one guy's data on line showing that he loads 6.1 grains of Green Dot behind a 230gr FMJ bullet. His data did not say what he's shooting that load out of. My only .45 acp is a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911A1. There were other people who loaded as high as 5.8 gr with the same bullet. Also no mention of what gun they ran it in.

Does anyone know the story of why the VMD for Green Dot changed over the aforementioned time period in the Lee Precision VMD sheet? Did they misprint previously?

Has anyone developed loads for .45 acp with Green Dot who knows if the 5.4 grain max load is overly cautious? I have read that Lyman's data has changed since 2005 because Alliant publishes few loads for Green Dot in handgun cartridges anymore. They consider Green Dot a shotgun powder and only publish that data - or so it is said. I don't really want to knock the 150 rounds apart and re-do them, but I will if necessary.

Please, no lectures about treating the published max load as gospel. I have no intention of firing a load that might blow up my gun. I just need to know if anyone else has developed and fired a load like 6 grains of Green Dot with a 230 gr jacketed bullet in a 1911. Any load information you guys can provide would be appreciated.

Rick

 

[les.b]

Have you actually weighed these charges, or are you only calculating the weight in grains from the volume and listed density of the powder?

 

[DWalt]

Have you actually weighed these charges, or are you only calculating the weight in grains from the volume and listed density of the powder?

My question also. Seek the truth rather than what some chart says. You do not know the actual volume of your sleeve cavity. I don't know exactly what VMD means, but the proper measurement is called bulk density - the mass of some given unit volume of propellant. References give a value of bulk density for Green Dot to be 0.515 Grams/cc (or 7.95 grains/cc). For 0.76cc, that translates into 6.04 grains in your case (0.76 X 7.95).

Regarding loads, the older Green Dot powder data sheet recommends 5.4 grains with a 230 grain FMJ bullet. Speer #9 gives a maximum load of 5.7 grains with a 225 grain jacketed bullet.

 

[arjay]

Spend the money on a good scale and find out!

 

[Nevada Ed]

Green Dot does well in my J frame snub nose for +P loads
from 110 to 158gr bullets.

In the .357 magnum I can get a 158gr lead bullet up to 1281fps in a 686 6" revolver.

In the 9mm it can get +p loads barely but is at its best with target loads.

It is right between Red Dot and Unique and does well to keep up
with "almost" results.

However if you shoot a 12 Ga., it is one heck of a great trap powder !!
19.5 grs with a 3 dram 1 1/8oz. load for handicap 1200fps load, worked for me.

Never tried in any bullet over .358 dia. but can't see why it would not work for light to medium heavy loads.

 

[DWalt]

For many years when I was skeet shooting regularly, I used only Green Dot in my 20 ga loads. It is the perfect powder for 20 ga skeet loads, and I went through a great many pounds of it. I always used Red Dot for my 12 ga skeet and trap loads.

 

[moxie]

There are a few GreenDot loads published in older manuals.

However, I, too, strongly recommend you weigh your loads on a good scale before proceeding with any reloading at all! Calculating powder weight from density might get you in the ballpark, but won't be nearly accurate enough for safe reloading.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The highest I have ever gone with Green Dot with a 230gr bullet in the 45 ACP is 5.5gr. It's my opinion 6.0gr will be very hot but your 1911 just might handle it.

5.4gr is listed as generating 19,800 psi. The SAAMI pressure limits for the 45 ACP are 21,000 psi and 23,000 psi for +P. I have a feeling 6.0gr might exceed the +P pressures. I don't know that I would shoot them unless I had a heavy revolver to shoot them in.

 

[model 49 rick]

Thanks Guys,
I had a feeling that knocking them apart and re-doing them was going to be the way to go. ArchAngelCD's post about the pressure limits made up my mind about that. To answer les and dwalt, no I haven't actually weighed the charge. A combo electronic scale/powder trickler is on my list to acquire, but haven't done it yet. Soon, soon.

Thanks again.

Rick

 

[forestswin]

Rick
5.4 is the max I see in older data
So, simply with 6 grains......."NEVER EXCEED" applies.

Personal safety trumps everything.
Pull them. It's not worth it.

5 stars for back checking and being on your toes and catching that

 

[johngalt]

Lee's VMD chart should not be trusted. Powder manufacturers only guarantee their powder is consistent by wright, not volume. Every time you start a new lot number, you need to recheck that your thrower is dumping the correct charge.

Green dot was my very first powder, I found it to be excellent for .45 230 gr FMJ. My load was 5.1 gr. Or it was excellent when dispensed with my Chargemaster 1500. It is a very large flake that meters horribly. After using up that first 1# can I moved on.

 

[noylj]

VMD is a bulk density number and varies with how the powder packs in the measure. The Lee data also seems to be for "perfect packing" and I always get a LIGHTER load than the Lee numbers would suggest. I would be surprised if, using the correct cavity, you ever got a heavier charge then ESTIMATED by the Lee chart.
Next, you always weigh your charge.
Finally, you always work you load up from STARTING and not just jump into a load.
Green Dot is an excellent powder for .45 Auto. Right there with 231/HP38 for accuracy.
I show MAX loads from different manuals at 5.4gn, 5.4gn, and 6.1gn (note: the velocity at 5.4gn ranges from 802-920 fps and the velocity at 6.1gn is 850fps). Reduce the MAX load by 10-12% for the starting load. The one manual with a starting load was 4.9gn for the 5.4gn MAX load.
I don't shoot 230gn bullet, but for 200gn L-SWCs, I get great accuracy with any charge from 4.5-6.3gn, with 4.7gn producing many <1.0" groups at 25 yards.
I would really like to visit some folks and see the "poor metering" they are always talking about, as I just don't see it.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

First off, "model 49 rick" you NEED to get a scale, even if it's a cheap electronic scales, to verify what the sleeves are dispensing.

Alliant's 2004 Reloading Guide lists:
- 230gr FMC & 5.4gr/G-D= 920fps @ 15.8K psi.
- 230gr JHP & 5.4gr/G-D= 845fps @ 19.5K psi.

Sierra #5 lists 240gr JHP & 6.0gr/G-D= 850fps

I've loaded Xtreme's 225gr P-TNFP with >6.0gr/G-D in my 4516 & 1911, which have heavy springs & I use to shoot +P loads in.

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