HBWC velocity

[Model19man]

I’m looking for chronographed velocities that you fellow loaders find the most accurate at 15 & 25 yards. That would be with a 148 grain HBWC in .38 special out of a 4” barrel. Not looking for recipes, just what speed y’all find most accurate!
Thanks…Tom

I would say you need to figure out what load is most accurate in your revolver. Basically the most accurate rounds using a 148 grain HBWC will be from 600 - 800 FPS. Find out what yours likes.

 

[StrawHat]

but at what range whilst they be accurate.. is the real question

For matches, I shot to 50 yards. In practice, I would stretch the range to 100. I developed much better sight hold and trigger squeeze at that range. I believe Ed Harris went even further out.

Kevin

 

[AJ]

but at what range whilst they be accurate.. is the real question

By "what range", I am going to assume that you mean velocity. For me, my program says the load I am using is 610 FPS. But as the saying goes your mileage my vary. I use 2.8 grains of Bullseye and that makes me happy with the accuracy. You may have to use 2.9 or a tad more, or 2.7 or a tad less. Reloading is the best way to go for a lot of us. It is the experimenting to find the proper/most accurate load that is fun. It will give you a sense of accomplishment.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

700 fps average S&W 686 Plus four inch (2.8 grains Bullseye Speer HBWC)

 

[3rdgeargrndrr]

I have to say this from past experience, with these velocities, never shoot steel.
My load if Unique or Bullseye is NA, is Hp38/231 3.2gn from my 66

 

[AJ]

I shot this the other day. Not the 50 yards everyone is talking about, shot that range when I had good eyes and 35 years earlier. Now at 72 and needing cataracts worked on I shoot 15 yards. But I still shoot in the off-hand and not supported. Did throw one out of the group. Used a Silver Dollar for size comparison.

 

[noylj]

Do NOT shoot 800fps or faster loads with HBWCs-- the skirt will separate from the front of the bullet. 25-50 yard accuracy is best at 600-700fps.
Use Zero or Precision Delta bullets. Try Bullseye, AA2, and 231/HP38

 

[CALREB]

Tom, Most of the best factory HBWCs come out of a 6" barrel at just over 700 fps to 750 or so. Out of a 4" barrel they may be a bit less. I have shot them all in competitions along with 158 SWCs that are about 800 fps. The 148s have great accuracy (one hole) ability at 15/25 yards. There are some made at just over 600 fps, which would probably be fine from a 4" barrel, for 15 and 25 yards with a lot less recoil. Like someone said above just use good primers.

 

[rwsmith]

Try the tried and true recipe....

148 gr HBWC with 2.8 gr. Bullseye Powder or 2.7 gr. of Titegroup.
Work up about a half a grain to find the best load for your gun.

Other good powders for this are Acc #2, HiSkor 700X and I've had pretty good luck with Red Dot and HP38/Win231.

 

[BE Mike]

have you actually shot the hollow base wadcutter at full velocity, using the loads found in the hodgdon reloading website data base?

I have, its FUN. and every skirt survived intact. I have a goodly number stuck in my back stop, with huge deformities to the front half of the bullet, and the skirts are all intact, sure some are bent, but all survived such "improper" velocities quite well. I have a few somewhere in my stuff that the ONLY recognized part of the bullet is the skirt.

I don't understand why anyone would want to drive soft, .38 SPL 148 grain hollow base wadcutters at high velocities, especially when one (the OP) is trying to obtain the best accuracy. I've shot a considerable amount .38 SPL 148 grain hollow base wadcutters, most of it factory match and never had the desire to shoot them at high velocities. I've always considered accuracy to be paramount when reloading target and/or plinking ammo. I don't even drive my .44 Magnum loads at any way near maximum velocities. I've seen a shooter at a match, shooting 148 grain HBWC reloads and had the skirt blown off. It puzzled him that there were more hits on the target than what he shot. I would never want to do that. If I were the OP, I'd take the majority of suggestions on velocity, not the minority.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

When one can load an appropriate 150gr .308" bullet into a 300 Blackout, 30/30, 308 Winchester or a 300 Winchester Magnum case and go hunting for whitetail deer, one might ask oneself which one, where and why...?

All will work in their proper application, but you probably don't really need 3000fps for a 100 yard shot on a whitetail, do you?

Most HBWCs are used in a target application, and accuracy would seem to be the goal from a reloading standpoint.

The warnings about skirt separation have more to do with a safety precaution vs. terminal performance: along the lines of "bunny fart" loads possibly resulting in squibs.

Cheers!

P.S. There are also differences in the actual composition of HBWCs: a commercial bullet might be swaged or hardcast, for those home-made, who knows!

 

[TAROMAN]

I have always loaded swaged HBWCs to 740 fps +or- a bit.
Maybe I'll try backing down to ~725.

 

[BE Mike]

they work, and in my gun, the speer 148 grain that i have fired with what you call "safe" loads, have a disturbing lack of rifling marks on the skirts.

The ones whot with the load data that alliant and hodgdon state as creating "900 fps", HAVE rifling marks on them. And for some reason the bullets that have the rifling marks, shoot better.

But as they say, IF the lawyers felt the loading data was bad, they would not have allowed it to be published non stop for about what 45 years now.

Yeah, i can find reloading manuals with the high velocity hollow base loads from the 1970s

I never got good accuracy with Speer 148 gr. HBWC bullets. If I want to drive a lead bullet faster in .38 SPL, I'd switch to a solid cast bullet, like a 158 grain LSWC. I'll reiterate that I wouldn't suggest to anyone to drive a swaged 148 grain HBWC bullet at the velocities that the 900 fps velocities that you recommend.

 

[AJ]

I never got good accuracy with Speer 148 gr. HBWC bullets. If I want to drive a lead bullet faster in .38 SPL, I'd switch to a solid cast bullet, like a 158 grain LSWC. I'll reiterate that I wouldn't suggest to anyone to drive a swaged 148 grain HBWC bullet at the velocities that the 900 fps velocities that you recommend.

What gun are you using? These are a couple of mine, not great, but then again I am not as good a shot as I once was........

 

[BE Mike]

they work, and in my gun, the speer 148 grain that i have fired with what you call "safe" loads, have a disturbing lack of rifling marks on the skirts.

The ones whot with the load data that alliant and hodgdon state as creating "900 fps", HAVE rifling marks on them. And for some reason the bullets that have the rifling marks, shoot better.

But as they say, IF the lawyers felt the loading data was bad, they would not have allowed it to be published non stop for about what 45 years now.

Yeah, i can find reloading manuals with the high velocity hollow base loads from the 1970s

Well, I looked up reloading data for the .38 Special Speer 148 gr. Hollow Base Wadcutter in a Speer manual, a Winchester manual and Alliant. All of them list the MAXIMUM velocity at right at 800 fps. Alliant specifies that it is data from a 6" handgun.

 

[BE Mike]

What gun are you using? These are a couple of mine, not great, but then again I am not as good a shot as I once was........

I gave up on the Speer bullets a long time ago. At the time I was shooting a S&W model M&P and later a model 28. When I was dabbling in PPC, I was shooting a stock S&W model 14 at the time, but I was using factory match ammo. I was also using factory match ammo in my S&W model 52-1. My go to choice for .38 Special 148 gr. swaged LHBWC is now the Zero, but I've heard that Precision Delta has an excellent example. I now mostly shoot a S&W model 19 and model 66 with my reloads, but once in a while I shoot them in a S&W model 60 and an older Charter Arms Undercover.
I think that this was fired with factory match while standing/ unsupported at 15 yards.

 

[BE Mike]

if you talk with alliant powder people, they will admit the loading data, and velocities they use for speer swaged bullets is mainly low as it is, to keep the leading down. They have no issue if you use the higher velocity loading data like hodgdon shows.

They merely warn you about something called LEAD Buildup.. and they are right.

So you are refuting recommended published MAXIMUM loads? You once, touted them! I won't waste any more bandwidth responding. That'll make everyone here happy, I'm sure!

 

[AJ]

I gave up on the Speer bullets a long time ago. At the time I was shooting a S&W model M&P and later a model 28. When I was dabbling in PPC, I was shooting a stock S&W model 14 at the time, but I was using factory match ammo. I was also using factory match ammo in my S&W model 52-1. My go to choice for .38 Special 148 gr. swaged LHBWC is now the Zero, but I've heard that Precision Delta has an excellent example. I now mostly shoot a S&W model 19 and model 66 with my reloads, but once in a while I shoot them in a S&W model 60 and an older Charter Arms Undercover.
I think that this was fired with factory match while standing/ unsupported at 15 yards.

This is my old beat up Pre-14 PPC that was built by A.H. Belhert. It is a DAO and I do enjoy shooting it with either 148 grain HBWC's or DEWC's. First target of the day and not shaking at all yet!