Heavy cast bullets in the .44 Special
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Heavy bullets
I tried 'em but they kicked a bit and the velocity was too low in the correct range of pressure for the Special. Guess they could be pushed more in a 44 mag Like a SBH..but might as well use a 44 mag then.
I tried 'em but they kicked a bit and the velocity was too low in the correct range of pressure for the Special. Guess they could be pushed more in a 44 mag Like a SBH..but might as well use a 44 mag then.
fredj338
Member
Not sure what you would gain really. I don't even see the point of 300gr+ in a 44mag & there is room for enough powder to push them to good vel. A lot of recoil for little gain in performance over say a 250-270gr bullet. Especially in hard cast, a 250gr bullet @ 1100fps isn't staying inside most animals, so a 300gr, why? Maybe if I were hunting elephant, but anything else, just don't see the need. I would run a good 250gr LFP or LSWC @ 1000fps in the 44sp & call it good enough.
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fredj338
Member
I am just wondering what the point would be. You can probably get 1000fps in fully loaded 44sp cases, in a 4" gun, maybe. Much easier to get there with a 250grLSWC & neither will stay inside even a moose size critter, unless you are shooting them end to end.
Hey Ballard,
I haven't loaded anything that heavy in 44 special, but did assemble some test loads last night using an old Lee SWC mold that throws them about 260 grains. Hope to hit the range this week, will let you know how it goes if you like? Will be using my Bulldog and SBH for testing.
I haven't loaded anything that heavy in 44 special, but did assemble some test loads last night using an old Lee SWC mold that throws them about 260 grains. Hope to hit the range this week, will let you know how it goes if you like? Will be using my Bulldog and SBH for testing.
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Fred, the point is efficiency. In the magnum case. I've shot everything from 215s to 300s. I keep going back to 280s. I'm wondering if the same won't be true in the special. I'm really liking 280s and wondering if anyone else is shooting them.
Stranglehold
Member
When it comes to cast bullets for the .44 Special, Glen Fryxell says it as well as anyone;
"When loading the .44 Special for general use (i.e. 800-1000 fps), it almost seems wrong to load the case with anything other than a SWC that captures the elements of Elmer Keith's basic design, whether from Lyman/Ideal, Cramer, RCBS, H&G, or NEI. Gas-checked bullets are not needed, or even appropriate, for this level of ballistics, and heavyweight bullets raise pressures faster than velocities in this cartridge, making the plain based 250 grain SWCs the logical choice for optimum performance from these guns. If the shooter wants more expansion than these bullets offer, then the Keith SWC (429421) was also made in HP form. Cast soft (i.e. BHN of 7-8) these cast HP's expand just fine at 1000 fps." The .44 Special is renowned for being the source of Elmer Keith's inspiration, for giving rise to the .44 Magnum
Roe
"When loading the .44 Special for general use (i.e. 800-1000 fps), it almost seems wrong to load the case with anything other than a SWC that captures the elements of Elmer Keith's basic design, whether from Lyman/Ideal, Cramer, RCBS, H&G, or NEI. Gas-checked bullets are not needed, or even appropriate, for this level of ballistics, and heavyweight bullets raise pressures faster than velocities in this cartridge, making the plain based 250 grain SWCs the logical choice for optimum performance from these guns. If the shooter wants more expansion than these bullets offer, then the Keith SWC (429421) was also made in HP form. Cast soft (i.e. BHN of 7-8) these cast HP's expand just fine at 1000 fps." The .44 Special is renowned for being the source of Elmer Keith's inspiration, for giving rise to the .44 Magnum
Roe
Over the course of 10 or 12 years:
I've loaded 305 Lee FNGCs and 325 gr BTB LWNGCs at 1,200 and 1,100 fps respectively in a 5 ½" FA M97 and while recoil is stout, they are manageable. I WOULD LIMIT THESE TO INFREQUENT USE IN THE FREEDOM ARMS M97 OR IN .44 MAG GUNS.
Also loaded some 300gr Keith (Mt Baldy), 300gr WFNPB (unknown source) and the aforementioned 325 gr BTBs right at 1,050 fps (trying to duplicate Brian Pearce's article). These were all shot in the FA97.
Have run a bunch of 429421 (Lyman Keith) and 429244 (Lyman Thompson SWC GC) over 17.0gr 2400 in the FA97.
Did the above for several reasons.
I was looking for a load to carry while walking the dogs here in Montana and I was curious as to the possibilities. Jumping an elk during the fall is always a possibility, and the FA97 is an absolute joy to carry/shoot so I just had to experiment with the 300 + gr bullets. Also thought that heavy weight loads to be carried in a 329 PD .44 Mag when loaded in .44 Spcl cases would leave a bit more margin for error against the dreaded "crimp jump". And finally I have a Rossi M92 carbine that is extremely sensitive to cartridge OAL. The longer nosed bullets loaded in .44 special cases solved some of those issues.
For a strictly business load, I have pretty much settled on the 429244 265gr SWCGCs from Matt's Bulllets in the FA97. It'll do right a 1,200 fps with 17.0gr of 2400 and is really adequate for most anything I'll encounter. It is also reasonably pleasant to shoot. For pleasure, commercial cast 240gr SWCBB with 6.5gr of HP38 is accurate and fun to shoot – it runs right at 900 fps from the FA97.
I don't have a picture, but when I was verifying POA/POI with the 325s in the FA97, I shot a 4" 3 shot group at 100 yds from the bench with open sights – so they are plenty accurate and apparently stable as there were no oblong holes in the target.
Here are some pictures of targets shot with FA97.
FWIW,
Paul
I've loaded 305 Lee FNGCs and 325 gr BTB LWNGCs at 1,200 and 1,100 fps respectively in a 5 ½" FA M97 and while recoil is stout, they are manageable. I WOULD LIMIT THESE TO INFREQUENT USE IN THE FREEDOM ARMS M97 OR IN .44 MAG GUNS.
Also loaded some 300gr Keith (Mt Baldy), 300gr WFNPB (unknown source) and the aforementioned 325 gr BTBs right at 1,050 fps (trying to duplicate Brian Pearce's article). These were all shot in the FA97.
Have run a bunch of 429421 (Lyman Keith) and 429244 (Lyman Thompson SWC GC) over 17.0gr 2400 in the FA97.
Did the above for several reasons.
I was looking for a load to carry while walking the dogs here in Montana and I was curious as to the possibilities. Jumping an elk during the fall is always a possibility, and the FA97 is an absolute joy to carry/shoot so I just had to experiment with the 300 + gr bullets. Also thought that heavy weight loads to be carried in a 329 PD .44 Mag when loaded in .44 Spcl cases would leave a bit more margin for error against the dreaded "crimp jump". And finally I have a Rossi M92 carbine that is extremely sensitive to cartridge OAL. The longer nosed bullets loaded in .44 special cases solved some of those issues.
For a strictly business load, I have pretty much settled on the 429244 265gr SWCGCs from Matt's Bulllets in the FA97. It'll do right a 1,200 fps with 17.0gr of 2400 and is really adequate for most anything I'll encounter. It is also reasonably pleasant to shoot. For pleasure, commercial cast 240gr SWCBB with 6.5gr of HP38 is accurate and fun to shoot – it runs right at 900 fps from the FA97.
I don't have a picture, but when I was verifying POA/POI with the 325s in the FA97, I shot a 4" 3 shot group at 100 yds from the bench with open sights – so they are plenty accurate and apparently stable as there were no oblong holes in the target.
Here are some pictures of targets shot with FA97.
FWIW,
Paul
I like Unique but prefer Herco and keep it under 8 gr.
one eye joe
US Veteran
One eyed Joe,
Agreed on most of what you said about Elmer. However, the FIRST bullet he designed for it weighed 280 grains. He claimed it a great killer. He redesigned the nose for better long range accuracy, NOT to make it lighter. 250gr was what he ended up with.
Agreed on most of what you said about Elmer. However, the FIRST bullet he designed for it weighed 280 grains. He claimed it a great killer. He redesigned the nose for better long range accuracy, NOT to make it lighter. 250gr was what he ended up with.
one eye joe
US Veteran
I DID NOT KNOW THAT BALLARD. (JUST MORE EVIDENCE THAT I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. ITS A DAAAAMN GOOD THING THAT I DON'T PRETEND TO) IMHO, THERE'S NOTHING THAT CAN BE KILLED BY THE 280 GR, THAT CAN'T BE KILLED BY ELMER'S 250 GR LOAD {22.0 GR OF 2400, IIRC}. I WOULD THINK THAT LONG RANGE ACCURACY WOULD BE A WORTHWHILE PURSUIT, IN DESIGNING A LOAD FOR A POWERFUL CARTRIDGE. IF ELMER MOVED AWAY FROM THE 280, IN FAVOR OF THE 250 GR---FOR WHATEVER REASON---IT WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. WHY SECOND GUESS ELMER ? ? ?
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I have been shooting 280s informally. Seems accurate, out to 100 yds anyway. I have not posted results, as its too cold to get out chronograph and deal with targets. All shooting been done at rocks, etc. Veral Smith likes the 280, as an all around bullet in both the Special and the Magnum. Ross Seyfreid likes it too. I'll have more hard data later. I want to thank Paul105, as that was the kind of answers I was looking for.
fredj338
Member
My hunting bullet is a 270gr cast lead cup point. If I had a 44sp, I would have no issues running this bullet. Cast it hard for deeper penetration or softer for less & decent expansion @ 1000fps. I have since removed the gc, just not needed on a bullet only going 1250fps.
