Heckler & Koch P7M8

[Naphtali]

Heckler & Koch's P7M8 "squeeze-cocker" has been out of production for decades. Why?

As I remember it, it was an all-steel delayed blowback 9x19 mm (later 40 S&W also) designed for the West German Bundeswehr or national police agency. Requirements for reliability and durability for acceptance for production were stringent. (Remember that the Bundeswehr also had Zeiss-Wetzlar design the 8x30 B/GA IF binocular for general issue beginning in 1964-65. This gave new meaning to "military issue.")

So what was the P7M8? A reliable, durable, incredibly safe, incredibly user friendly single-stack semiautomatic pistol that was satisfactory for "duty" use or concealed carry.

Its sole "issue" was initial price. When I peruse current advertising for pistols intended for a similar purpose set, the P7M8's price "issue" becomes a non-issue - that is, substantial sales of comparably high-priced (when converted to 2015 dollars) pistols have occurred for many years. And these are not just niche fillers; they are also for duty/CCW.
***
When this pistol became available in 40 S&W (for commercial sales), I anticipate it required reinforcement that competitive pistols also required. I have no idea whether this variation of the pistol maintained its military/paramilitary reliability-durability level.
***
And the pistol's "double-stack" variation is a real question mark. While squeeze cocking the single-stack variation is easy regardless of hand size and easy when person has severe arthritis in fingers, when the squeeze perimeter becomes substantially larger, the effect on cocking leverage and instinctive pistol control is significant.

So what's the deal here? As a rigid, reactionary revolver user, the P7M8 is one of, perhaps, two semiautomatic pistols I would consider as satisfactory replacement for my 357 Magnum carry gun.

Unfortunately, Heckler & Koch no longer supports these pistols. So consumables that require regular replacement, such as magazines, do not exist.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Biggest knock on the P7 besides the cost is that it got hot quicker than most other pistols, making extended range work a little difficult. I love mine.

Edit: While it's true that you can't buy P7M8 magazines directly from H&K, there are several outlets for factory magazines. You just have to be careful which version you order, and they're mighty dear to the wallet as well . . .

 

[HARDWARE]

Love these pistols. Here's a PSP I bought a few years ago..and I felt like I paid too much.

The prices have since doubled. I was able to acquire factory new magazines shortly thereafter.

 

[Absalom]

Heckler & Koch's P7M8 "squeeze-cocker" has been out of production for decades. Why?

As I remember it, it was an all-steel delayed blowback 9x19 mm (later 40 S&W also) designed for the West German Bundeswehr or national police agency. Requirements for reliability and durability for acceptance for production were stringent......

So what was the P7M8? A reliable, durable, incredibly safe, incredibly user friendly single-stack semiautomatic pistol that was satisfactory for "duty" use or concealed carry.
.......

The PSP, as it was originally called, was developed in the 1970s when the police forces of the West German states and the Federal government were looking to replace the Walther 7.65mm standard issue pistols with 9mm guns. The Bundeswehr was not involved. Three pistols were selected for adoption, the Walther P5, SigSauer P6, and the PSP, now officially designated the P7.

The P6 was the big winner, being adopted by a majority of states and the Feds.

The P7 was adopted by only two states, plus a third for plainclothes carry only. (One more state followed after reunification in 1990). Most found the squeeze-cocker concept too novel. Insufficient training also led to several well-publicized accidental shootings of suspects by police officers who squeezed the trigger finger right with the rest of the hand. After that the gun never quite shook the reputation of being a safety hazard.

So it remained a niche gun for experts. The Bundeswehr's personal protection specialists ended up adopting it because neither the Walther P1 nor its successor, the HK P8, are suitable for concealed carry. The GSG-9 anti-terrorist squad carried it for some years in the late 80s/early90s until switching to the Glock 17.

So HK probably abandoned the P7 concept, since they've been very successful with their later models. Their P30 is now the standard federal handgun, and both the P30 and P2000 have taken over from the Sig P6 as the most widely issued German police pistol.

 

[Homie]

I got mine a few years after they came out and each time I had it at our club someone would want to look at it and usually take my offer to shoot it.

Now, 30 or 35 years later, people ask about it because they've read about them but never seen one!

 

[Naphtali]

As your time permits, please post here, OR PM me, with contact information for P7M8 magazine manufacturers and resellers. If any offers new OEM magazines or after-market magazines whose quality you believe is comparable with OEM, identify each for me.

Information about parts availability would also be of much help.

I located one with a clock-stopping asking price in 9x19 mm. While I prefer 40 S&W - there's no substitute for cubic inches - I suspect the cost of one would be frightening.

Biggest knock on the P7 besides the cost is that it got hot quicker than most other pistols, making extended range work a little difficult. I love mine.

Edit: While it's true that you can't buy P7M8 magazines directly from H&K, there are several outlets for factory magazines. You just have to be careful which version you order, and they're mighty dear to the wallet as well . . .

 

[GyMac]

I really admire this gun and would like to own one. It seems that all the guns I really like, revolver and auto, aren't made anymore.

 

[JAFO]

I own an early psp, the only one I have ever seen. I knew it was special and it was at a fair price I think. it is the only gun I have ever shot that had me laughing out loud, they thought I was crazy at the range. yes it does get hot, and you cant miss the click when it is cocked. I would carry it but its too heavy and too expensive of a gun.

 

[sodacan]

P7 police trades-in are the least expensive option for purchasing one. They are not pretty and many of them have a slide that has turned a plum color. If you expect to find cheap parts and magazines, maybe you should be looking at a different gun. The P7 stands as a paradigm of design and engineering. They are utterly reliable and accurate and just plain cool. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Muley Gil]

When I was in Kosovo on a UN police mission, one of my station commanders was a German police lieutenant. He carried a P7. When he went on leave back in Germany, I volunteered to clean it for him. Of course, that was the week I was assisting with our qualifications.

So there I was, a borrowed a pistol and unlimited 9mm ammo! His P7 shot quite well. I burned a bunch of ammo through it.

When Martin got back from leave, his pistol was nice and clean.

 

[Engine49guy]

Also a fan of the P7, picked up a near perfect condition West German PSP and it does get hot in the trigger after a few mags.
IIRC the biggest difference between the two versions was the PSP had a heel actuated mag release like the P-38,P1,P4,P5 where the P7 M8 has the mag release mounted by the thumb, IIRC the M8 also has a plastic shield above the trigger on the frame to insulate the heat there .

Mags are not interchangeable but the P7 M-8 mags can be easily modified to fit the PSP by removing the "tab" IIRC.
Seems to me that Promag may have made some P7 mags but factory mags are plentiful on the web including Gunbroker although usually found priced between $85 and $100.

 

[5-Shot]

I bought mine around 1980 and woulbn't dream of parting with it. Great trigger, has target accuracy and is utterly reliable. Everyone who has ever shot it immediately wanted one...until they checked prices.

I believe Absalom identified it's lack of official acceptance. Too many untrained officers pulled the trigger and the cocking lever at the same time, with disastrous results.

Ed

 

[gen3guy]

LGS has a used one in very good condition for $2200. I'd grab it but I can get 2 M&Ps and a Sport II for the same price.

They have a "cult" following and are a unique design and very well made. Also much harder to manufacture than today's designs. If you have one sit on it. The value can only go up.

 

[Absalom]

...... If you have one sit on it. The value can only go up.

IIRC, when the state of Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony) retired the P7 in favor of the P2000 around 2005 or so, officers could purchase their P7 for €160 (about $220 at the time). Shortly after, when the first of these (recognizable by the Nds stamp) appeared on show tables here, they had a $900+ price tag.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I'm a lucky PSP owner, and it was on top of my grail gun list for over 20 years before I was finally able to cross it off of my list. My recollection was that the P7-M8 was made for export sales in the US. I believe the New Jersey State Police were the first LEO users in the US. The "US" style magazine release was a requirement for the contract sales. I spoke with some German LEOs and they said a problem they had with the "European" or heel type magazine release was that often times the car seat belt would activate the magazine release. It can be difficult to find quality leather for the P-7 pistols, but if you find a good quality holster, and mount it on a decent enough belt, you can comfortably carry it all day long - at least that has been my experience. I used my PSP to initially qualify for my CHL, and then to re-qualify a few years later. Neither of the CHL instructors or range masters had ever seen a P-7 - one had never even heard of H&K - so go figure.

Regards,

Dave

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

All I know is that I cannot afford the H&K calendar. They are proud of their stuff!

 

[JohnRippert]

The HK P7 is another on my want list that I always look for. It attracted me in my late teens when it came out.

 

[Muss Muggins]

All I know is that I cannot afford the H&K calendar. They are proud of their stuff!

And rightfully so . . .

 

[SAFireman]

Many years ago I was offered the opportunity to fire a P7 M13 that was owned by one of the US Customs Service Marksmanship team members. It was a neat gun. I set out to buy one, but they were terribly expensive for a young man and I had to wait - they have only gotten more expensive over time......I still kind of want one, but I want other things too, so it will wait a bit more I suppose.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

And rightfully so . . .

Maybe so, but it will be a long time before I found out - if ever!