Help Identification of K38

[FrankM66]

Hello group, thank you for being here. Forgive me that I am an all around newbie.
I currently own a couple year old 686 deluxe and a couple shot guns and have shot since about age six now 51,so not a total novice.
I stopped at my local gun store today and saw a K-38 in what I would say is in excellent condition. I liked it and given the fact she was so nice I put a deposit on it until background finishes up then I'll go back at pick up my new edition.
Lots of silly questions.
Exactly what frame is this considered?
What year of manufacture?
Grips are nice and comfortable for me yet seem large and with a large carved in thumb rest, are they correct? are the period correct grips available and from where? What wood would the be made from?
I believe this is a pre model 14 but to be honest all I have is the serial number.
Basically any advice and ACCURATE information is welcome.
Thanks
Frank.
Serial Number K303###
Paid $600

 

[Sevens]

K303xxx dates way back to 1957 according to the records we have. The Model 14 was known as the K-38 Masterpiece, it is a classic K-frame.

Those are not original S&W stocks, that revolver would likely have come with target stocks that are also sometimes described as large, but not that large. Original wood that is period correct and high condition would set you back a few hundred. Modern S&W goncalo alves target would be close and you could snag a set for under $200.

Available from... the classified section of this forum, often on Ebay, often at gun shows.

It’s hard to tell condition from two pictures but that seems to be a fine purchase at $600.

 

[FrankM66]

Thank you for your input, so is this a Model 14 or pre 14?
Gun store submitted paper work model K38. Didn't K38 become a model 14 about that time?
Regarding the grips I wondering if they were a stock option.
I've found a few pictures of early K38s with these exact grips. If also seen pictures with these grips and stock grips with medallion together in original box. Dam internet has me confused.

 

[hkcavalier]

It's a model 14 if you open the cylinder and it's stamped MOD 14 on the frame.

Around here, we just called the earlier guns K-38s. It's not incorrect to call a 14 a K-38, but if S&W gave a pre-model number gun a specific name it's generally known by that and later model marked guns are only referred to that way. Gun stores are well-known for messing up S&W sale tags and online listings, it's part of what makes the hunt fun.

Clear as mud?

 

[linde]

Thank you for your input, so is this a Model 14 or pre 14? Gun store submitted paper work model K38. Didn't K38 become a model 14 about that time? . . .

Yes, model numbering was adopted by S&W in 1957 and most K-38 Masterpieces in the K303XXX serial number series did ship in 1957 but before the Model 14 designation appeared. It often takes awhile for such changes to make their way through the production process and work already in process.

Because your K-38 example is exactly the same as a later one model-marked MOD 14, it's common hind-sight to refer to it as a "pre-model 14".

Regardless of designation it is one fine target-grade revolver . . . they called it a "Masterpiece" for good reason. Your new acquisition appears to be an excellent example . . . enjoy,

Russ

 

[Skwirl]

Your K38 also has a trigger shoe. Added by po.
Very nice gun you got at a good price.

 

[Kansasgunner]

Nice K-38! The grips appear to be Sile, which were made in Italy I believe. As previously mentioned Target stocks with the diamond at the escutcheon would be period correct. Many of the K38s shipped with Magna stocks which were numbered to the gun. Only a letter will tell you for sure how it was originally outfitted.

 

[andy52]

It may be just a trick of the lighting but it appears to have a side plate screw missing.

 

[22hipower]

Thank you for your input, so is this a Model 14 or pre 14?
Gun store submitted paper work model K38. Didn't K38 become a model 14 about that time?
Regarding the grips I wondering if they were a stock option.
I've found a few pictures of early K38s with these exact grips. If also seen pictures with these grips and stock grips with medallion together in original box. Dam internet has me confused.

I'll add a couple comments that I don't think were answered above. Your gun is a four screw K38 Masterpiece also known as a "Pre-Model 14." The grips, which some prefer to call stocks (on a S&W anyway) are definitely not S&W factory. The factory versions, both the targets and the smaller magnas, always had S&W medallions during that period; they would also have had diamonds around the screw. You can find period correct ones on eBay although they will be $100+ (for magnas) and $200+ (targets). The original magnas, if that's what it shipped with, would have had the SN stamped on the inside of the right panel (target K frames stocks did not have the SN stamped). Looks like it is in very good condition and a nice buy in California at $600. Enjoy.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[hkcavalier]

Your looks a lot like mine. Target hammer, standard trigger with the shoe added later. I'd go for some nice target grips vs. incorrect serial # magnas. I especially like the Altamont olivewood Roper-style grips.

 

[JP@AK]

Hello group, thank you for being here. Forgive me that I am an all around newbie.

Welcome! We were all newbies once. You will find we are a friendly bunch and enjoy sharing information with each other.

I stopped at my local gun store today and saw a K-38

I believe this is a pre model 14 but to be honest all I have is the serial number.

Serial Number K303###

As has already been explained, it is a K-38 Masterpiece. The serial number is too low for it to have a model number, so you can call it a "pre-Model 14," if you like. When it was first sold at retail, no one would have dreamed of calling it that . . .

And BTW for all the snide comments we see and write (many of them deserved) about local gun shops, your guy had it right. The tag correctly says K-38.

What year of manufacture?

1957.

Model numbers were assigned by management in the summer of 1957. But, as my good friend Russ pointed out, the directive could not be implemented immediately by the floor supervisor. As it turns out, the K target guns continued unmarked with model numbers until well into the K300,000 range. I own a K-22 with a serial number in the K311000 range that shipped in January, 1958. It is not a Model 17. The lowest number I have identified so far on a model-marked gun is K316819. That is on a Model 19 that shipped in 1958.

After model numbers showed up, the various revolvers still retained their old names. The model numbers were simply added to the designation. So, for examples, the K-22 Masterpiece became the K-22 Masterpiece Model 17. The .357 Combat Magnum became the .357 Combat Magnum Model 19. And so on.

Exactly what frame is this considered?

By now, it should be obvious from the discussion that it is built on the K size (medium) frame (hence the name K-38). The K prefix serial numbers were used postwar on K frame guns with target sights. Fixed sight K frames after the war got a series of other letters; first an S, then a C and finally a D.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion. The bottom line is you picked up a heck of a nice revolver for a decent price. Enjoy it, assuming you can still find good places to shoot in SoCal.

 

[Sevens]

Here's a tip that I didn't see in this discussion but a handful of years ago when I was for more green on the S&W revolver game, it was NOT obvious to anyone new to them, even though it's old hat to most of the veterans.

Lots and lots and lots of Model numbers and many names too. How does a 10 differ from a 15? Can you spot a 19 and see that it is different from a 15? What the heck is a Model 13 and why does that even exist?

Well, I figured out early that a 10 and 15 were similar. Blued steel, K-frame, .38 Special, commonly found with a 4-inch barrel. Fantastic duty sidearm, something carried outside on a belt for a cop, DOC, armored car, armed security, etc. The difference between the 10 and 15 is that the 10 has fixed sights and the 15 are adjustable.

Which begs the question... what is the difference between a 15 and a 14? Both are blued K-frame .38 Special, both have adjustable sights?!

Well, the 14 was designed as a target gun, and so many were used for informal and formal competition. The 14 sports a rib on the top of the barrel and has a front sight that is much more geared to precision target work instead of rough & tumble fighting work. It's been said that the 14's got better finishing work inside, smoother and noticeable better feel. 14's also had different barrel length, stocks, trigger and hammer options that were not offered with 15's.

Learning all the nuances of the different models is a really enjoyable journey and your journey starts with one of the finest!

 

[DWalt]

My notes indicate that the Model 14 started at SN K339382, around December 1958. Prior to that, the correct official nomenclature would be the K-38 Masterpiece (NOT as sometimes seen, a K-38 Target Masterpiece). The Model 15 (beginning slightly later at SN K353062) is very similar to the Model 14 in most respects, except its barrel length is 4" instead of 6". It was previously known as the Combat Masterpiece. There were some known to have 5" barrels, but let's not go there.

 

[Iskedarian]

Identification help

Greetings! I hope this thread is still being monitored. I recently gained possession of a K38 Combat Masterpiece of my late father’s that was his service carry. The gun is virtually pristine and I know that he regularly won several police competitions with it. Plus, it also has about 300 wad cutter rounds with it. I am trying to just get an idea of the “ship date” and some basic care, especially the outside blueing. The butt serial number is K488066. Thanks in advance…

 

[Muley Gil]

Greetings! I hope this thread is still being monitored. I recently gained possession of a K38 Combat Masterpiece of my late father’s that was his service carry. The gun is virtually pristine and I know that he regularly won several police competitions with it. Plus, it also has about 300 wad cutter rounds with it. I am trying to just get an idea of the “ship date” and some basic care, especially the outside blueing. The butt serial number is K488066. Thanks in advance…

Welcome to the Forum.

When asking questions about a different firearm than the one in the initial post, I would advise you to start a new thread.

 

[rct269]

"Sevens" post (#12) notes "It's been said that the 14's got better finishing work inside, smoother and noticeable better feel."

I don't know who said what and when about all that, but here's what the factory had to say about it---back when. And I don't know when "back when" started, nor when it may have stopped----if it stopped. This from what purports to be S&W's 1925 Catalog (speaking to target grade guns):

"------a special type of trigger pull is desirable---not by any means simply a very light pull, but one having the peculiar quality termed "light and crisp" by shooters. This not only requires a special type of notch and trigger point, but requires a different adjustment of the working parts of the action."

They also note: "A trigger pull of from 5 to 7 pounds is standard for our fixed sight arms both .38 Special and .32/20 Caliber, while on arms fitted with target sights the standard trigger pull is 3 to 4 pounds." (I don't know why they mentioned these calibers in particular, because there are several other caliber target grade guns in the catalog---all of which state a trigger pull of 3 to 4 pounds.)

A clue as to at least when this may have started comes from a little experiment I conducted with 14 M&P Targets from my collection of target guns. The single action trigger pull on each and every one of them (from 1902 to 1936 models) was 3 1/2 pounds----exactly!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Retired W4]

Ok, a 3 1/2 year old thread. FrankM66 never got back on to clear up whether it's a non-model marked 4 screw or a 14 (right hand ejector rod). Oh well.