Help identify a revolver

Can someone please help identify my revolver? I believe it's a pre model 10 38 spl 2" snubby without the locking lug for the cylinder under the barrel. S&W logo on side plate and only made in USA no address for S&W. 5 screw side plate with walnut checkered grips. Behind the crane are the numbers 01 09 26 and the 6 digit serial number 970XXX (x's blocking the numbers) no letters with SN. Any help would be appreciated!
 
Sorry you and your wife had to go through that.

Thank you. She's at the hospital right now having some tests run. She's been "cancer free" for almost a year now, but we continue to monitor it very closely. With nearly 47 years of marriage behind us, we are ready to add a few more. 50 is in sight! :)
 
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can anyone tell me how to add pictures of the gun that I have as JPG on my desktop? I have photos of the gun, and original box.
 
Can someone please help identify my revolver? I believe it's a pre model 10 38 spl 2" snubby without the locking lug for the cylinder under the barrel. S&W logo on side plate and only made in USA no address for S&W. 5 screw side plate with walnut checkered grips. Behind the crane are the numbers 01 09 26 and the 6 digit serial number 970XXX (x's blocking the numbers) no letters with SN. Any help would be appreciated!

A 2" snubby without the locking lug means the barrel has been cut, and it usually indicates a refurbished and converted former British Service model. The 970xxx serial would mesh with that, however it would not be in the yoke (= crane) cut-out, but would have to be on the butt.
 
can anyone tell me how to add pictures of the gun that I have as JPG on my desktop? I have photos of the gun, and original box.


This didn't work. Use the Go advanced button below the quick reply window, then the Manage attachments button, and follow the prompts to attach the file from your desktop. Up to five photos can be added to a post this way.
 
Nice. Thanks for the pics.

That is a 5" barrel, not 4". Does the box give the correct barrel length on the end of the top? Is the gun's serial number written on the bottom?
 
The box does say that it is a 5 in barrel. The serial number is not written on the bottom.
 
Okay. Thanks. It could still be the original box. Most of them have the serial number on the bottom, but it is entirely possible that step was missed. On the maroon boxes, it was often penciled on the end label. I have some like that.
 
Barrel lengths on the S prefix M&P revolvers, from most common to least common, are as follows (based on my research so far):

4"; 5"; 2"; then 6". However, it should be noted that the 2" and 6" are presently in a statistical tie, with the data collected to date. Also, the 2" guns are split between round butt and square butt. I can make no determination at this point whether there were more round examples or square examples.
 
First, welcome to the Forum.

Second, you have an immediate postwar .38 Military & Police revolver. The S prefix was used only from March, 1946 (ship dates) until sometime in 1948. Actual stamping of the S prefix guns started in September, 1945 and stopped in March, 1948, when the serial sequence hit S999999. That one actually shipped to Minnesota in June, 1948.

The S sequence began at roughly S811xxx and was intermingled with SV prefix guns for a short while. Both the SV and S prefixes were used to wind up the serial sequence that began on April 24, 1942 with V1. In December, 1944, the S was added in front of the V to indicate an internal engineering change involving a new sliding hammer block safety mechanism. When wartime production stopped, the SV was phased out in favor of the simple S. When the S sequence ran out, it was replaced with the C prefix, in March, 1948.

Your particular example, S934xxx, very likely shipped in August, 1947, possibly September of that year. The M&P was a high volume shipper in that period, so most of them didn't hang around the factory for long after they were produced. Ship dates are quite consistent during this time, unlike during earlier and later periods. So we can usually guess pretty closely on ship dates for these guns (with only occasional outlying examples showing up).

I'm in the midst of a research project on these revolvers. I would greatly appreciate having the complete serial number for your gun. If you don't wish to post it openly, perhaps you would send it to me via PM. Ownership isn't tracked, just serials and features. If you can post some clear pictures here, it would also be appreciated. A pic of the left side is the most needed.

Regards, and thanks for posting.
Jack, I'm pretty sure you already have this one, as I've posted it before and I think it's one of the odd shipments;
My 6" M&P SN S853105 shipped November of 1948.

Looks just like OP's gun except for barrel length:


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Jack,
I just noticed that you are in Palmer. Although I live in Southern California, I was born in AK and lived in many of the cities/towns there. My sister currently lives in Anchorage. One day, after I retire, I plan on moving back. Thanks again for your help.
 
Jack, I'm pretty sure you already have this one
Yep. It is in the database. Thanks for checking.

I think it's one of the odd shipments;

SN S853105 shipped November of 1948
Clearly a very late shipment for the serial number. And I did confirm that date with Roy. Most of the guns in that range left the factory in November, 1946, a full two years earlier.

This is completely speculation on my part, but I suspect the very late shipment on this gun is related to the low demand for the 6" barrel during this period. The vast majority of LE guns that I've documented have 4" barrels, although there are some 5" examples in that category. I tend to think that when all is said and done, the 6" is going to turn out to be the least common. Perhaps people who wanted a 6" barrel were holding out for the release of the K-38, which didn't make its appearance until about two years after the war. Again, I'm just guessing here, but I would not be surprised if I'm right. :)
 
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The box does say that it is a 5 in barrel. The serial number is not written on the bottom.
Welcome to the forum Sir. I like your gun a lot.
The serial number might still be there, just very faint. Look at mine:

BTW, you can trust everything JP@AK tells you about your nice M&P, as he is THE go-to for these guns.

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Although I live in Southern California, I was born in AK and lived in many of the cities/towns there
Funny. I made exactly the opposite switch. Escaped SoCal in '69. After a detour to 'Nam, I settled in Oregon. Then moved up here 10 years later. I expect I'll die here, since I have zero interest in living anywhere else.

My sister currently lives in Anchorage. One day, after I retire, I plan on moving back
If you ever do that, or even visit her, be sure to let me know. I'll buy you lunch or something. I can be in Anchorage in 45 minutes or so, depending on traffic. Or you could come out to the peace and quiet of the Valley! :)
 
Yep. It is in the database. Thanks for checking.


Clearly a very late shipment for the serial number. And I did confirm that date with Roy. Most of the guns in that range left the factory in November, 1946, a full two years earlier.

This is completely speculation on my part, but I suspect the very late shipment on this gun is related to the low demand for the 6" barrel during this period. The vast majority of LE guns that I've documented have 4" barrels, although there are some 5" examples in that category. I tend to think that when all is said and done, the 6" is going to turn out to be the least common. Perhaps people who wanted a 6" barrel were holding out for the release of the K-38, which didn't make its appearance until about two years after the war. Again, I'm just guessing here, but I would not be surprised if I'm right. :)
I wondered about the 6" guns. I was kind of surprised that S&W made these with the 6" barrel.

Also, I don't believe I've seen it anywhere before, but what was the manufactured quantity for the 6"?

If I have to, I'll eagerly await your Journal article.

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what was the manufactured quantity for the 6"?

I don't think that is known. Since the production logs are unavailable, Roy would have to find every invoice and do a tally. I'm not willing to ask him to do that. We will just have to extrapolate from the survey to determine a rough percentage and break it out that way. I hope to be able to use a sample of at least 1,000 guns. We are close to having that to work from, but certain ranges are over-represented right now. Still some work to be done.
 
I wondered about the 6" guns. I was kind of surprised that S&W made these with the 6" barrel.
....

Some totally anecdotal evidence that the 6" barrel was not a priority:

Klein's 1946 catalog, which was printed early in the year, only offered the model in 4" and 5". Yet by October they received a 6" version (which ended up with me). So it must have been added to the line-up later, like maybe the even scarcer 2" variant.

PS: Note that the catalog still uses a pre-war image with small service stocks and left-side logo.
 

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Absalom
Interesting stuff.

Allow me to share some info from my database.

1. The lowest serial number I have for a 6" barrel is an odd gun. It is the famous VS gun. I believe firmly this is a one-off. No one has ever showed up with another VS marked gun and I truly believe this was simply a fitter's error. The V is actually smaller than the S and it is out of line. This gun is owned by a SWCA member and I have seen pictures of it. The serial number is VS8134xx.

2. The next lowest number for a 6" revolver in my database is another oddball. It is S814910 and it shipped on April 30, 1946, to Jonas Arms & Aircraft, in New York City. It has target sights and was identified for delivery south of the border, hence it is a "Mexican Model." The other odd thing about it is that it has a pressed hammer pivot stud. The change order for this modification was issued on January 18, 1946, but it doesn't show up in regular production until about serial number S819462 (according to Hellstrom's notes) and the lowest number I show in my database with this change is S819469, which shipped on June 5, 1946. It seems to me that S&W might have implemented the change for the Mexican Model before they did it on regular production revolvers (as an experiment?). Unfortunately, I don't have in my database any other Mexican Model guns with nearby serial numbers, so I don't know if this one is a one-off example. Also, this particular gun isn't wearing its original stocks, so I don't know whether the Mexican Models shipped with the prewar or postwar style stocks. Several nearby serial number guns were still being fitted with the prewar stocks, so this remains an unanswered question.

3. Next, I show about a dozen 6" guns in the S819xxx and S820xxx range. The first three in this group have numbers within 200 of each other and all of them have the threaded hammer pivot stud (just before the production change). One of them has a factory nickel finish. The rest, including the one mentioned in paragraph 2 above, have the pressed stud. The ship dates on these guns are spread between April, May and June, 1946, but only two shipped as late as June. For the most part, guns in serial range S819xxx to S829xxx left the factory in April and May, 1946, including some with the 6" barrel. A very few in this group shipped in June and one in July.

4. I don't show any more 6" examples in my survey until we get to the S837xxx and S838xxx range, then I show a bunch. In two cases, I found 6" boxes (no gun) that carry serial numbers in the S837xxx range, one of which is in my personal collection. These guns were shipping in September, 1946.

5. That brings us to your gun, in the S844xxx range, which shipped to Klein's in October, 1946. I show a few more 6" guns in that range (S844xxx to S845xxx), with one having a serial number very close to yours. It actually shipped in September, to an unknown destination (unknown to me, at least; I got the date from Roy, but not the destination). It should be noted that October 4, 1946, is when the knurled end on the extractor rod was ordered to replace the knob on revolvers with barrels longer than 2". However, this change did not start showing up in production until about serial number S874xxx on guns shipping in early 1947 (February is the earliest in my database). Even after that, for a while the knob and knurled end types are mixed together, presumably until they ran out of their stock of the older type rod.

To sum up, Klein's may not have been getting the 6" M&P revolvers until late summer or early fall, but they were being produced, albeit sporadically, before that. Nevertheless, your posted photographs are helpful in piecing together the story of these interesting revolvers. Thanks for your contribution!
 
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