Help Identify Colt 1860??

[revho]

Greetings forum friends.

Doing some research on what this is. It is not mine. I do not own it. It is not for sale. It's not a repro and I have written documentation on where it came from. I think it is a model 1860 Colt but none of the original Colt markings are on it. I have been looking at pictures on line of other Colts and this seems to look identical. The gun was unfortunately refinished in the mid 1930's. This should have a manufactures name on it though, right? It does have the 3 serial numbers on the frame and trigger guards. Two are the same, one is different so I can assume it is pieced together. It is stamped US in front of the trigger guard and has a very small D stamped behind the trigger guard.

I guess what I am looking for is confirmation that it is or is not a Colt, and why it might not say Colt where it should be marked. I am not a Colt or old arms experts but I'm sure in hours most on here can tell me what it is.

Thanks In advance.

Kevin

 

[mg357]

that revolver is either a colt 1860 Army revolver or a colt 1861 navy

 

[Texas Star]

It's the .44 M-1860. The 1861 Navy doesn't have a rebated cylinder. And the .44 usually has this 8" barrel length. The Navy has a 7.5-inch bbl. The model of 1862 is the Pocket Police .36, which is smaller and has a fluted cylinder.The Colt name and address were probably polished off during the refinish. And the trigger guard looks as if the gun may have been dropped on it, or that part was otherwise bent, and improperly straightened.

The screw through the grips is also unusual on this model, which had a special one-piece grip, I think. The frame screws had to be taken out to remove the grip.

T-Star

 

[mkk41]

Well , not being able too see it , or read the serial number (real 1860s went from 1-200500) , it looks like a common 'antique-ing- trick. Take an Italian copy ,put it outside in the elements and weather for awhile , let it get a bit rusty , then buff and polish the rust , pitts and import/proof marks off of and claim it's an old genuine Colt. Some cowboy re-enactors do this to make their guns look like the real thing.

And as was alluded too already , genuine Colt's , as well as most replicas , had a one piece grip.

My vote , it's a fake.

 

[revho]

Well , not being able too see it , or read the serial number (real 1860s went from 1-200500) , it looks like a common 'antique-ing- trick. Take an Italian copy ,put it outside in the elements and weather for awhile , let it get a bit rusty , then buff and polish the rust , pitts and import/proof marks off of and claim it's an old genuine Colt. Some cowboy re-enactors do this to make their guns look like the real thing.

Serial 102XXX

Serial 703XX

Serial 102XXX

 

[mkk41]

Well , here's some genuine 1860s for comparison.
Collectors Firearms

Hmmm , mixed numbers , mixed parts. Sorry , but it's just to difficult to tell. There have been examples where stamps were added or embellished. Some fakes are so good as to fool people who know more than me. Parts guns are really tricky. I see a US stamping on the triggerguard. I'm seeing that marking were removed from the frame , which were case hardened and colored.

 

[David LaPell]

That's looks to me like a repro that someone made older (or tried) to make it look original. There should also be a serial number on the bottom of the grip frame.

 

[revho]

Thanks everyone so far. There are only the 3 serial numbers listed above. I did take the grips off and they are held on by the single screw and do not go under the frame, but stop at the frame. I do know this was in the same family since 1911.

When did copies/italian copies start showing up?

 

[Evil Dog]

Once saw an "original" at a gun show that had "Black Powder Only" stamped on the barrel. Me thinks it wasn't too original.

 

[Muley Gil]

"I do know this was in the same family since 1911."

The Eye-talian repos were introduced in the late '50-early '60s.

This revolver has been cut for the optional shoulder stock.

 

[revho]

This revolver does have the notch on the back of the bottom butt strap for the shoulder stock.

 

[Thuer]

I look at the color of the metal. An guine Colt has an other look to it. Sorry this is a FAKE.
You can see it direct to screw out an bold and trye to place an bold with American thread in it. It woulden fit becouse the thread is European Metric.

Here is mine. Look at the color of the metal.

 

[jlrhiner]

There were many Confederate copies of the Colts. Not saying this is one, but can't be ruled out unless it is in hand. Screws have to be measured, internal workings compared, etc.etc.

 

[Thuer]

Yes, there where Southern copy's. But never of an Army 1860.
They where copý's of the model 1851 or even the Dragoon.

 

[revho]

Thanks everyone for the input thus far. I guess I am at this point after looking at all of the 1860's for sale in the Collector's Firearms link on the first page. A lot of the Colts are pretty worn where the markings of 44 cal, colts patent, and the cylinder markings are almost worn off. I guess this is all attributed to wear, holster or otherwise. It this revolver in question had similar issues of most if not all of those markings worn off, when refinished, it would not be improbable that they would be missing or taken off after refinishing and reblued.

As noted above, I agree the only way to be absolutely certain it is a Colt would be to have someone take measurements and compare to a known original. I really don't have that option right now as it is locked in a safe deposit box in a bank vault.

Thanks all again for the input. Just knowing it's family history and where it came from I have to say it is an unfortunate refinish with it's identity lost. I wish I knew what it looked like or had a picture of it before it was refinished.

Kevin

 

[walnutred]

If this revolver has actually been in the owners family since 1911 as stated I speculate it is a mail order parts gun. Sears and Bannerman, to name just two, were assembling all sorts of odd stuff. Around 1900 it is very possible that a large quantity of parts were bought as surplus by a mail order firm, assembled and sold. In the '50's and 60's it was possible to assemble a Spencer from parts the Government had recently released as surplus. Why not a 60 Army in 1900?