Help identifying Pre-V Victory?

[TheVault]

I have the pictured revolver in .38 S&W Special, and everything I can find is leading me to believe it is a Victory with a pre-V serial number. The only thing that is throwing me off is the fact that there are no arsenal or US Property markings. Nothing that tells me Lend or GI...

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[DWalt]

96892(or 8)7 would place its shipment at around April 1942. It could be either a U. S. Maritime Commission (Merchant Marine) or a Defense Supplies Corp. (DSC) pre-Victory. More likely a DSC, as many more were shipped. They were not property stamped. You'd have to get a historical letter to find out for sure. But not military. DSCs were for stateside use - police, defense plant guards, etc.

 

[Waveski]

We come to the Forum. And nice debut - that is a very nice DSC revolver you have there , good pictures too. Fine grips , unmolested screws , a real keeper.

 

[Absalom]

Pretty much anything is a possibility with pre-Victorys in the 900-thousands.

While a DSC or Maritime Commission gun is indeed the most likely case, stamping in general was inconsistent throughout the first half of 1942 and completely unstamped guns have lettered to the Navy.

 

[opoefc]

As said above, you have a multiple choice on where this Victory was sent. Get a letter if you want to know. My bet is the DSC, based on the very nice condition. Ed.

 

[Jaymo]

I have one just like yours, just not as nice of condition.
Mine has a serial number in the 930,000s.

 

[TheVault]

Sorry if this is already answered and easy to find, I will do some searching, but is there a quick and easy answer to where I can request a letter? Sorry for being a noob

 

[Absalom]

Sorry if this is already answered and easy to find, I will do some searching, but is there a quick and easy answer to where I can request a letter? Sorry for being a noob

Here you go:

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

Note that you want the "Letter of Authenticity", not the "research request" at this point. That's a later (possible) step.

 

[TheVault]

Much appreciated!

 

[2lmaker]

I have one of these pre V serial number guns on order right now, purchased on line. It has a 4 digit non V number, is correct in all features as a victory with the same numbers on the cylinder and an arsenal flaming bomb stamp. Do you guys think I am correct assuming it was a very early defense supplies gun that may have been "turned back in" to the army and got arsenal marked?
I will be sending for a letter when I get my hands on it and can thoroughly check it out, but meanwhile- Does anyone here know any more about a four digit pre victory?

 

[Absalom]

I have one of these pre V serial number guns on order right now, purchased on line. It has a 4 digit non V number, is correct in all features as a victory with the same numbers on the cylinder and an arsenal flaming bomb stamp. Do you guys think I am correct assuming it was a very early defense supplies gun that may have been "turned back in" to the army and got arsenal marked?
I will be sending for a letter when I get my hands on it and can thoroughly check it out, but meanwhile- Does anyone here know any more about a four digit pre victory?

A non-V prefix four-digit serial cannot exist on a gun from that era. The only four-digit serials on an M&P are the very early 1899/1900 models.

So there is something not right with the serial markings or your reading of them. Did you look at photos, or are going off the seller's description? The flaming bomb is a stamp that is found on all, not just military-shipped Victorys.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have one of these pre V serial number guns on order right now, purchased on line. It has a 4 digit non V number, is correct in all features as a victory with the same numbers on the cylinder and an arsenal flaming bomb stamp. Do you guys think I am correct assuming it was a very early defense supplies gun that may have been "turned back in" to the army and got arsenal marked?
I will be sending for a letter when I get my hands on it and can thoroughly check it out, but meanwhile- Does anyone here know any more about a four digit pre victory?

Have you examined this revolver in person or just looked at pictures? I have seen numerous pictures where the "V" is underneath the lanyard loop. Was that four digit number taken from the butt or from the frame, behind the yoke?

 

[DWalt]

All of what are considered as being pre-Victories would have SNs with six digits, the first digit being a 6, 7, 8, or 9. The SN would be stamped on the butt, the rear face of the cylinder, a flat on the bottom of the barrel, inside the right grip panel, on the yoke (visible through a chamber), and behind the extractor star. And of course there were also relatively few M&P revolvers sold on the civilian market intermixed, and which are not normally considered to be pre-Victories. Victory production began in 5/42 with SN V 1. Except for the pre-Victories made after early 1942, they will have the normal commercial checkered wood grips with silvered S&W medallions instead of smooth wood grips.

 

[2lmaker]

Have you examined this revolver in person or just looked at pictures? I have seen numerous pictures where the "V" is underneath the lanyard loop. Was that four digit number taken from the butt or from the frame, behind the yoke?

just asked on line. on the butt I was quoted a four digit serial and again from the cylinder base.

Anything is possible but I doubt anyone would add the lanyard, add the visible tooling marks and lesser finish and the plain, worn grips, and then stamp the arsenal mark just for the slight added value of a victory over a 1905. I am sure as I can be that this is a victory but until I lay hands on it I can't be 100% sure of that as you say.It is very possible the V is under the lanyard with a few more digits. I was told the cylinder was marked with the same number but that could also be possible.

Thanks for the help, the 4th edition S and W book agrees with all said so far, I may send for a letter, I will post images if it is an interesting oddity, send it back if it is questionable since it was advertised as a victory by a large and trusted seller.

I don't want to hijack this thread, thanks for the help.

 

[DWalt]

Depending on what you find the correct SN actually is, it may or may not be worth the expense of getting an historical letter. In most cases a letter will not provide much useful information beyond the exact date of shipment.

 

[Muley Gil]

The first Victory serial number was V1, so a Vxxxx is entirely possible. It could be that the lanyard loop is rusted in place and the "V" is obscured.

 

[Absalom]

On 6-digit V-numbers starting with 2 or higher, the V will be found on the opposite side of the lanyard swivel attachment and can be overlooked, although that shouldn't be the case on a 4-digit. But the swivel itself can indeed still cover it in photos, and the cylinder serial's V, if present, is usually offset by one chamber interval. The best uninterrupted serial with prefix is found on the flat underside of the barrel.

 

[handejector]

Here you go:

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

Note that you want the "Letter of Authenticity", not the "research request" at this point. That's a later (possible) step.

Your link is busted, so--
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Home Page - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

 

[handejector]

I have one of these pre V serial number guns on order right now, purchased on line.

Since it is a closed sale or auction, it is okay to post a link to it. If it has pics, we can look at it for you.

 

[2lmaker]

Since it is a closed sale or auction, it is okay to post a link to it. If it has pics, we can look at it for you.

yeah, I have two pics, a right and left side profile. For all I know it says "made in taiwan" under the barrel and has a "run good/run bad" switch under a grip panel.

I could post the pics, but for our purposes just imagine a perfectly squared up (you can see the cone-cylinder gap) right and left image of every Victory you have ever seen.

Watch for a posting by me at a later date, I'll post the pics.