Help me to answer this guy!

I'll try this again. Read the Constitution. Show me where it says we have to try and appease those who would seek to limit/remove our God given rights.

The "Sensible Gun Control" you tout will lead to one thing. The total disarmament of the common man.

......moon
 
Assuming the facts are correct, which I do not, the conclusion is that the increase in gun ownership caused an increase in gun deaths. Quite the opposite could be true...the increase in gun deaths and violent crimes drove the law abiding citizens to arm and protect themselves. Thus, violent crime preceded the increase of gun ownership and the "statistician" ignores and reverses this fact to prove his/her own point.

Cause and effects are easy to imply when not including all the facts in totality.
 
I found this interesting: The original poster states:

"However, "gun deaths", as defined by the source data, I think does include homicides, accidents, and suicides, as well as justified shootings by citizens and law enforcement. Some posters have taken exception to that, but I say it's valid -- even in the case of justified shootings, since most justified shootings are due to the perpetrator being armed as well."

Personally, I would like to see fewer murders and more justified shootings. The end result would be the same number of "gun deaths", but the outcome would be very different.

I have tried using logic with anti-gunners, but it generally doesn't work. Typically they are responding to emotional arguments rather than reason. This said, the simple logic goes like this:

Criminals are, by definition, individuals who do not follow the laws of society. So any laws put into effect will primarily impact law-abiding citizens.

The other big issue is that the Second Amendment isn't about hunting or sport shooting. It was written by our forefathers to provide the citizenry with the means to overthrow a government that becomes tyrannical. That they chose to put this as the second amendment tells us how very important it was to them to preserve our right to bear arms.

With this in mind, I'm against any law that reduces the ability of the American citizenry to defend their rights and preserve their liberty.
 
Mikerault, here is an example of the progressive nature of restrictions to freedom, as you propose in your post. The City of Seattle banned smoking several years ago within 25 feet of any workplace. The State of Washington eventually adopted that rule. Now, Seattle is moving to ban those new smokeless cigarettes that are actually helping people to quit smoking. There is no harm caused by them, other than the appearance of smoking. No second hand smoke (though that really doesn't cause cancer either, and I speak as a non- smoker and a person whose mother died from lung cancer related to smoking), no nothing other than appearance. Their reasoning is that people can't tell it's not a cigarette. You won't stop the anti's by going along with some of their agenda. You only stop them by standing up for your rights. And, more importantly, standing up for other peoples rights even if you don't agree with them.
 
Data can and usually is crunched in favor of whom ever is crunching it. You want data to prove your point, you just add or leave something out or put in irrelevant material. And why was I not surprised to see the fool is from the californicated state of oregun. Butt breaths like this fool don't deserve a reply . . . Remember the old saying, never argue with an idiot, someone walking by might have trouble discerning between the two of you. :eek:
 
Gun ownership helps make sure that the correct people are the ones who get shot. Ban guns and it will always be the innocent victims who wind up dead.
 
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