Help Needed: M&P 9c Issues

[S&WGuns]

Good Morning Everyone:

I have an M&P 9 that I love (1800 rounds, only 1 FTE). The slide was stiff but loosened up after 165 rounds. Thus, I also purchased an M&P 9c but I am having issues. After 800 rounds the slide is still very stiff. I have arthritis and it hurts my hands to rack it. I have oiled, greased, and cleaned the gun carefully. I have left the action open overnight (reluctant to do so but I am trying anything.) I have used 5 different types of ammo.

The gun is meant as an everyday carry but I am reluctant to do so since I have trouble racking it. Also, if I shoot with my left non-dominant hand I get 90% FTE's.

My questions: 1) Will the action ever become considerably easier to rack like my M&P 9? If so when?

2) Can I put a lighter recoil spring in the gun and still have it work reliably?

3) Since the barrel is shorter am I simply stuck with an inherently hard to rack slide?

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[scooter123]

Shorter barrels also mean that the spring under the barrel is also shorter and shorter spring will ALWAYS have a higher Rate of Rise in the Spring Rate. It's pretty basic Physics and unfortunately there really isn't any simple solution for it.

As someone with Arthritis in both thumbs I can sympathize with your problem. A couple of points to consider.

One is that there really isn't much need to rack the slide on your carry pistol. I carry a Sig P239 in 40 caliber daily and only very rarely drop the magazine and clear the chamber. Usually it's only cleared for the monthly cleaning of lint and detritus that carry pistols seem to be a magnet for.

Two is that there are likely methods for racking the slide that won't be too painful with your arthritis. Since mine is in my thumbs I don't use a pinch grasp, I go over the top of the slide and use the heel of my hand and 4 fingers to grasp the slide.

The final though is that at some point you may need to reconsider what type of pistol you are carrying. Both my Sig and my 1911 become very easy to rack the slide on if I simply cock the gun. While this may sound unsafe to someone used to a striker fired pistol I can tell you that striker fired pistols are 100% ready to fire if there is a live round in the chamber. So, keep your finger off the trigger and the muzzle directed in a safe direction and cocking a hammer fired semi is as safe as charging the chamber on a stiker pistol. So, point is at some point you may need to look at a pistol with an old fashioned hammer.

 

[JWH321]

I have exactly the same problem with my Shield. My 9c is like glass but the Shield is nearly impossible. I w2as told it would loosen up like my 9c did, but so far -- over 1000 rounds has not impacted it one bit.

My 9c took a good bit longer than the full size pistol. I really didn't feel like it was freeing itself up till it had fired 1000 rounds or more. But I found that the 9c is also sensitive to being cleaned and well lubricated. if there is crud on the recoil spring, I can feel it. If the striker channel is fouled,, it feels notchy, if the USB is dirty or dry, the trigger feels like sandpaper. I use Mil-Com grease on everything, and it really helps the 9c. Don't forget to put some lubricant in the slide rail channels and along the top of the chamber.

Lubrication does nothing for the Shield, and the full-size doesn't care what I do to it. But the 9c likes to be run a bit wet.

 

[Arik]

Try pushing forward on the grip while pulling back on the slide. Makes a big difference.

 

[S&WGuns]

Thanks for the reply Scooter123. I was thinking of a Glock 17 as my next pistol since it was easy to rack a new one in my LGS but many on Forums state that it is sensitive to Limp Wristing. I was also thinking of SIG Sauer p226 since it is a heavy gun but the additonal info on coking the hammer first is something that I did not consider. Thank you very much.

Shorter barrels also mean that the spring under the barrel is also shorter and shorter spring will ALWAYS have a higher Rate of Rise in the Spring Rate. It's pretty basic Physics and unfortunately there really isn't any simple solution for it.

As someone with Arthritis in both thumbs I can sympathize with your problem. A couple of points to consider.

One is that there really isn't much need to rack the slide on your carry pistol. I carry a Sig P239 in 40 caliber daily and only very rarely drop the magazine and clear the chamber. Usually it's only cleared for the monthly cleaning of lint and detritus that carry pistols seem to be a magnet for.

Two is that there are likely methods for racking the slide that won't be too painful with your arthritis. Since mine is in my thumbs I don't use a pinch grasp, I go over the top of the slide and use the heel of my hand and 4 fingers to grasp the slide.

The final though is that at some point you may need to reconsider what type of pistol you are carrying. Both my Sig and my 1911 become very easy to rack the slide on if I simply cock the gun. While this may sound unsafe to someone used to a striker fired pistol I can tell you that striker fired pistols are 100% ready to fire if there is a live round in the chamber. So, keep your finger off the trigger and the muzzle directed in a safe direction and cocking a hammer fired semi is as safe as charging the chamber on a stiker pistol. So, point is at some point you may need to look at a pistol with an old fashioned hammer.

 

[S&WGuns]

I appreciate the reply JWH321. So far I have 800 rounds through my M&P 9c. Should I continue firing it at the Range until the racking loosens up? My M&P 9 loosened up after 165 rounds.

Also I have been using Outters Gun Grease on the rails - is that Ok?

I have exactly the same problem with my Shield. My 9c is like glass but the Shield is nearly impossible. I w2as told it would loosen up like my 9c did, but so far -- over 1000 rounds has not impacted it one bit.

My 9c took a good bit longer than the full size pistol. I really didn't feel like it was freeing itself up till it had fired 1000 rounds or more. But I found that the 9c is also sensitive to being cleaned and well lubricated. if there is crud on the recoil spring, I can feel it. If the striker channel is fouled,, it feels notchy, if the USB is dirty or dry, the trigger feels like sandpaper. I use Mil-Com grease on everything, and it really helps the 9c. Don't forget to put some lubricant in the slide rail channels and along the top of the chamber.

Lubrication does nothing for the Shield, and the full-size doesn't care what I do to it. But the 9c likes to be run a bit wet.

 

[MichiganScott]

Although I have three M&P's, I agree with scooter123 about carrying a 1911 instead. The slides are much easier to rack if the hammer is cocked first.

The first thing I do is remove the full length recoil spring guide rod in my 1911's that are manufactured with one and replace them with the original short style. Then you can push cock them one handed with little problem.

 

[Rpg]

You've gotten excellent advice.

The only thing I might add is to try leaving your pistol with the slide locked back for a week or two: won't hurt your pistol.

 

[AGoyette]

The guy at our LGS also suggested pointing the gun muzzle down and try racking it that way. It is supposed to be easier. Hope it helps.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

Bear in mind... 1-2000 rounds in a gun is nothing.

When is the recoil spring supposed to be replaced? On the FS M&P I believe it's at 5000 rounds.

Let's assume it's the same for the compact. I would take it to 4000 rounds and see what it's like. If it's better, I would leave it there and maybe get a second spring on the go for the range... then once that reaches 4000 switch it to being the spring for carry and buy a new spring for the range. And so on.

Could be worth a try.

 

[S&WGuns]

Thank you Rpg and everyone who has commented. I noticed that on Forum's some advice leaving the slide back and other state it will damage the gun. Do you know what is S&W position? Thanks.

You've gotten excellent advice.

The only thing I might add is to try leaving your pistol with the slide locked back for a week or two: won't hurt your pistol.

 

[Mountain Walker]

Bear in mind... 1-2000 rounds in a gun is nothing.

When is the recoil spring supposed to be replaced? On the FS M&P I believe it's at 5000 rounds.

Let's assume it's the same for the compact. I would take it to 4000 rounds and see what it's like. If it's better, I would leave it there and maybe get a second spring on the go for the range... then once that reaches 4000 switch it to being the spring for carry and buy a new spring for the range. And so on.

Could be worth a try.

What is the dollar cost of 3,000 rounds of ammo? Could just sell the M&P9c and buy a Sig 239 and come out ahead with a much better and easier to manipulate pistol.

 

[S&WGuns]

Hi MichiganScott: Whici 1911 do you have and carry?

Although I have three M&P's, I agree with scooter123 about carrying a 1911 instead. The slides are much easier to rack if the hammer is cocked first.

The first thing I do is remove the full length recoil spring guide rod in my 1911's that are manufactured with one and replace them with the original short style. Then you can push cock them one handed with little problem.

 

[Ranger17]

Two is that there are likely methods for racking the slide that won't be too painful with your arthritis. Since mine is in my thumbs I don't use a pinch grasp, I go over the top of the slide and use the heel of my hand and 4 fingers to grasp the slide.

^^this worked well for me, not arthritic in the hands (yet) but the grip strength in the digits isnt what it once was and they do cramp up with use. Combine that with my being used to the ease of 'racking' my .22's and i was quite surprised the 1st time i handled my 9c. I wanted to avoid any struggle so went with using my hand as above rather then thumb/finger and for me it was night and day.

 

[walkin' trails]

S&WGuns,

I met an old cop years ago with severe arthritis in his hands and he suffered from the same problem. His pistol of choice was a 1911. I don't know what he ended up doing, but he seemed impressed with my Beretta 21A in .22 LR with its tip-up barrel. I don't preach a 22 as a primary or defensive handgun, but there are exceptions. Beretta also builds that gun in .32.

I also agree with the other posters that there are alternative methods of manipulating the slide, so practice them and see what works for you. I have a 9c, and don't know that you want the slide to loosen up too much as reliability may suffer. I have a bit of experience with the P239 on all three calibers offered. I found none of them as pleasant to shoot as a Glock or M&P. My perception of them is further influenced because some LE agencies carrying Sigs issued them to women and weak shooters whose hands were considered too small for the double stack duty pistoms, which were easier to shoot.

Whatever the case, don't fret. There is an answer out there to keep you shooting.

 

[S&WGuns]

Your post raises a very good point Mountain Walker. At about $300 per 1,000 rounds would make buying another gun feasible. I could probably get about $350 for my M&P 9c if I sell it via consignment at my LGS, i.e., $450 for a used gun costing $550 and then $90 for their 20% commission.

What is the dollar cost of 3,000 rounds of ammo? Could just sell the M&P9c and buy a Sig 239 and come out ahead with a much better and easier to manipulate pistol.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

After reading all of the posts, one simple solution comes to mind...get a revolver. The recoil springs are all engineered to make the gun operate properly. Any modification will change the operating characteristics and possibly make it unreliable. The smaller the gun the stronger the spring....simple physics. That's why the Shield gets so many complaints about a "tight" slide.

 

[MichiganScott]

Hi MichiganScott: Whici 1911 do you have and carry?

For your first .45, you would probably be best served with one of the Springfield models. I own Taurus and RIA, but I don't worry about customer service or resale value either.

 

[S&WGuns]

How is the recoil of the .45 compared to the 9mm? I would assume that is it much greater?

For your first .45, you would probably be best served with one of the Springfield models. I own Taurus and RIA, but I don't worry about customer service or resale value either.

 

[MichiganScott]

How is the recoil of the .45 compared to the 9mm? I would assume that is it much greater?

A .45 should recoil more than a 9mm, but you have a much heavier gun if you compare it to a M&P. It may actually recoil less depending on exact loads you use. However, the feel of recoil is different because you have a heavier, slower bullet. A 1911 seems to torque in my hands because of this while a 9mm seems to come straight back with more muzzle flip.

I see no reason that anyone that shoots shouldn't be able to shoot a .45 ACP. My petite wife shoots my .45's better than I do, but she doesn't like them because of the size of the platform. She carries a 9c instead.

 

[Sgt 45]

If you reload you can always tailor your loads to what is comfortable for you. A .45 ACP loaded a bit under factory specs is still a potent round. My full size 1911 has more felt recoil than my M&P9 and 9c, but I have been shooting it WAY better than the 9mm's of late. Don't know why, maybe an ammo problem although the 9's at 15 yards are all in a nice tight group. Anyway, I'm carrying the 1911 for the time being. A lighter bullet in the .45 will help with the felt recoil too.

 

[noglock4me]

My questions: 1) Will the action ever become considerably easier to rack like my M&P 9? If so when?Yes. When the recoil spring needs replaced for wear.

2) Can I put a lighter recoil spring in the gun and still have it work reliably? Not recommended

3) Since the barrel is shorter am I simply stuck with an inherently hard to rack slide?Hard for you due to your condition. Nothing wrong with the gun.

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Answers may not be what you want but are factual.

 

[Rpg]

Thank you Rpg and everyone who has commented. I noticed that on Forum's some advice leaving the slide back and other state it will damage the gun. Do you know what is S&W position? Thanks.

I believe S&W would tell you that it wouldn't damage the gun. Leaving springs compressed doesn't damage them as a general rule. I have a number of 1911 magazines that have been loaded since 1980: every 4 or 5 years I rediscover them and shoot one. They've all worked just fine.

I only have one left.

 

[S&WGuns]

Thanks Noglock4me. Facts are what I want. After shooting 1,050 rounds through my 9c I have come to realize that it is as good as it gets. I can shoot the pistol adequately with my right hand solo or with my left hand as support. I just cannot shoot non-dominant hand solo. Weak hand, strong recoil spring. Nevertheless on hot summer days, it will serve me as a more concealable carry. I can rack the pistol it is just not easy. I always carry a .22 Magnum Revolver on my left side for back-up. So with the two firearms I should be adequately covered. I know a .22 magnum is not a "man-stopper" but I have some short burning Hornady Self-defense ammo which provides some advantages.

I took a look at the SIG Sauer p226 and 320 today at the range and I am considering them for my next 9mm. Easy to rack and nice to shoot. I would get another S&W 9mm but since I have two of them, I interested in something different.

Once again thanks to everyone for the help. I deeply appreciate it.

Answers may not be what you want but are factual.

 

[shipwreck2]

Same problem here. New 9c with ftf & I have a full size M&P that has never failed to fire-using the same ammo with each gun.

 

[S&WGuns]

Interesting Shipwreck2. Thank you for the reply. My 9c will Fail to Fire if I use my left, non-dominant, hand solo and even I use both hands but shoot left handed. I asked several staff at my range and they stated it is limp wristing and due to the heavy recoil spring on the compact pistol. They stated that many Compacts are like the 9c. I can shoot the 9c reliably but only with my strong hand. I always carry a back-up Ruger LCR .22 Magnum (with Hornady Critical Self-defense ammo) on my left side.

I carried the 9c today and it was very comfortable in a pancake holster.

Same problem here. New 9c with ftf & I have a full size M&P that has never failed to fire-using the same ammo with each gun.

 

[Rastoff]

My 9c will Fail to Fire if I use my left, non-dominant, hand solo and even I use both hands but shoot left handed.

Sounds like it could be a grip issue. Any chance you could post a pic?

 

[S&WGuns]

Thanks for the response and interest Rastoff. I appreciate it. Here are some pictures of how I grip the pistol!

Sounds like it could be a grip issue. Any chance you could post a pic?

 

[Rastoff]

Thanks for the response and interest Rastoff. I appreciate it. Here are some pictures of how I grip the pistol!

OK, good pics.

I know that it can be difficult to take pics of your own grip. Holding the camera and the gun can be a balancing act. So, take this with a grain of salt. Also, examine your grip closely to see if this makes sense.

First of all, it looks like a decent grip, but I think a couple of small adjustments could help.

Look at this pic:

See how the barrel is in direct line with the forearm? This is the optimal rotation of the gun. It helps control recoil by putting the recoil in line with the arm as much as possible.

Also, notice how the web of my hand is bulging a little around the beaver tail? This is due to getting the hand as high as possible in the grip.

In this pic...

...there is too much gap between the beaver tail and the web of your hand. Get that hand a little higher in the grip. This also helps control recoil by lowering the barrel. Lowering the barrel and putting it in line with the forearm gives the gun the most solid platform to recoil against. Getting these two things right will reduce the chance of a Type II or III malfunction, due to "limp wrist", to a minimum.

These are just some things to look at. There is no one way to do it. And, I do understand that some of these things could be due to trying to take the pic.

 

[S&WGuns]

Great Picture Rastoff. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to help me . I am going to try what you suggest. It makes a lot of sense. It is interesting since when I rent guns at the range I noticed that some times the same gun feels like it has more recoil when it is probably my grip being off. You help is great. I am now going to focus on my grip more. Thanks again

OK, good pics.

I know that it can be difficult to take pics of your own grip. Holding the camera and the gun can be a balancing act. So, take this with a grain of salt. Also, examine your grip closely to see if this makes sense.

First of all, it looks like a decent grip, but I think a couple of small adjustments could help.

Look at this pic:

See how the barrel is in direct line with the forearm? This is the optimal rotation of the gun. It helps control recoil by putting the recoil in line with the arm as much as possible.

Also, notice how the web of my hand is bulging a little around the beaver tail? This is due to getting the hand as high as possible in the grip.

In this pic...

...there is too much gap between the beaver tail and the web of your hand. Get that hand a little higher in the grip. This also helps control recoil by lowering the barrel. Lowering the barrel and putting it in line with the forearm gives the gun the most solid platform to recoil against. Getting these two things right will reduce the chance of a Type II or III malfunction, due to "limp wrist", to a minimum.

These are just some things to look at. There is no one way to do it. And, I do understand that some of these things could be due to trying to take the pic.