help pistol selection with easy pull trigger

[preventec47]

I spent four practice sessions with a friend shooting an old Mod-10
38 special and due to arthritic joints and weakness the double action
trigger was just too much effort. Shooting single action was not an option
because the trigger finger sensitivity was low and the gun would
go off unexpectedly AND DANGEROUSLY

So what I am looking for is a relatively heavy pistol to control recoil
and a fairly small handle with an easier trigger pull in double action.

The strength simply does not exist to manipulate any kind of semi auto
slide so revolvers it must be. The mod 10 pistol used is in good condition
and very well broken in. Old feeble people want to defend themselves
just like anyone else and I was going to recommend a single
shot break action 20ga shotgun but the shooter
could not cock the hammer/trigger with one hand.

I have had a lot of suggestions for the Ruger LCR but I dont want to
give up the exposed hammer and it seems like it would recoil a lot
since it is so light. Plus I would like to see a SW solution.

Suggestions and ideas would be appreciated.

 

[ContinentalOp]

That's going to be a difficult problem to solve.

The only suggestion that meets your requirements that I can think of is to get a K-frame revolver, like a Model 10 or 64, and have a competent gunsmith smooth and lighten the DA trigger action. It might be possible to get a trigger pull smooth and light enough for your needs while still being reliable.

I know Beretta made a semi-auto with a tip-up barrel so racking the slide wasn't necessary to load/unload it. I don't know much else about it. Hopefully someone will chime in with more info.

 

[loeman]

The one gun in my possession that immediately came to mind while reading this post is my Md 64-2 with 2 inch barrel. Cocking the hammer is amazingly easy and the SA/DA pull is very light too. I bought the gun used but I don't think anything has ever been done to it. If they all work like mine (and I doubt that they do) the Md 64 might be a good choice.

 

[Pizza Bob]

4" L-frame with a good action job. Heavy enough to absorb recoil. Same grip frame as a K-frame like the Model 10 that was being used. Load it with .38 Spl or .38 Spl +P.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[pittpa]

OP, can someone measure the trigger pull on the model 10 you were shooting. It might help us to know that so we know where your sweet spot may be.


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[scooter123]

OP, can someone measure the trigger pull on the model 10 you were shooting. It might help us to know that so we know where your sweet spot may be.


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This is excellent advice. Because if you spend 60-100 dollars having a S&W model 10 tuned by a good gunsmith you'll be able to have an 8 lbs. DA trigger that is reliable with most commercial ammunitions. Spend 2 or 3 thousand dollars to have a model 10 completely reconstructed with needle bearings on pivot pins for the hammer and trigger and you might get a 6 lbs DA trigger to function reliably. If you have to have a DA trigger lighter than 6 lbs. you'll probably have to spend megabucks to have an electronically controlled motor driven revolver constructed.

The problem is that it takes a rather distinct level of Kinetic Energy to ignite a primer and that energy is normally supplied by compressing the mainspring in the revolver. The Work Input that supplies the power to compress that mainspring is done by your finger. So unless the leverage points are radically changed there is only so much that can be done to make the parts move more freely so the gain in efficiency allows a lighter trigger pull. So, by smoothing and polishing key areas you may see a gain in efficiency of perhaps 5 to 10 %. Install some needle bearings on key pivot points and you may gain a bit more efficiency. Lighten the hammer and you may be able to edge up it's velocity a touch more and gain a bit more Kinetic Energy because that is a function where the velocity is Squared.

After that point you then need to do a complete redesign of the leverages involved and part of that process will be the length of the trigger stroke will have to increase. Basic mechanics of Leverage dictates that if you double the length of the moment arm you can reduce the force exerted by half. So, double the length of the trigger stroke and you can reduce the trigger weight by half. Now look at what would be needed to modify a standard revolver so the trigger stroke in increased by a factor of 2. I think you'll find that just won't fit.

The next option is that Electric Revolver. Something that I really should patent because I expect we may see something like this in the next 20 or 30 years. Basically you have a high energy battery in the grip (hopefully not one by Samsung) with the trigger being a rather simple switch and the firing pin driven forward by a basic solenoid. You'll also need some linear motors to drive the Hand to rotate the cylinder and some electronic circuitry to tie it all together.

 

[Darkstar888]

The Ruger LCRX (external hammer) revolver in 357 is heavy enough to make shooting 38 a breeze. It has a built in recoil taming system in the small rubber grip. The trigger uses a special camming system making it the smoothest and lightest double action pull on any stock revolver I've shot.

 

[WaMike]

I can't imagine you can't make a Mdl 10 do what you want it to do....there are so many choices to "fix it" your way.

There are several sources for springs for Mdl 10/K-frames, but the first thing I'd do is have a gunsmith check out the innards. Someone may have been a little too aggressive with a stone (thus the "hair-trigger") and obviously, you'd want to fix that.

Assuming the trigger, hammer sear, etc. are OK, adjusting the double-action pull is as easy as judiciously adjusting the mainspring tension screw on the front of the grip. Not too much, or the gun won't go bang.

And exercise great caution about advice you receive on the internet....including anything I might say.

 

[ltj9296]

Ruger does make a model of the LCR with a exposed hammer, but you are correct in thinking they are very light with heavy recoil. The only thing I can think of is a k-frame with trigger job done by a good gunsmith. You can file down the strain screw about .015. That may drop the pull weight to around 9 1/2 lbs. Just be careful and not file too much or it will not fire reliably.

 

[lrrifleman]

@OP,

I have a S&W Model 36-6 that has a very comfortable and relatively easy DA trigger pull. Considering how you have described your friend, I would suggest that he considers a S&W Model 36 or 60 with a full Wolff spring kit. Concerning recoil, I would suggest that the first dose of ammo be 148gr wadcutters, followed by a speedloader of standard velocity 158gr semi-wadcutters. Standard velocity will minimize the recoil, as will the all steel frame. Wadcutters and semi-wadcutters will punch nice holes that will bleed.

My concern would be with the arthritic joints, will he be able to both retain the revolver and pull the trigger, if he HAS to face an opponent!

 

[ltj9296]

That is good advice on using 148gr wadcutters, they have very low recoil imo.

 

[murphydog]

If a gun purchase is possible, I would suggest trying a single-column magazine DAO semi-auto with a prominent slide release, and storing it with the action open. If this person has enough thumb strength to activate the release they are good to go. One of the steel Kahrs comes to mind.

 

[pittpa]

I can't imagine you can't make a Mdl 10 do what you want it to do....there are so many choices to "fix it" your way.

There are several sources for springs for Mdl 10/K-frames, but the first thing I'd do is have a gunsmith check out the innards. Someone may have been a little too aggressive with a stone (thus the "hair-trigger") and obviously, you'd want to fix that.

Assuming the trigger, hammer sear, etc. are OK, adjusting the double-action pull is as easy as judiciously adjusting the mainspring tension screw on the front of the grip. Not too much, or the gun won't go bang.

And exercise great caution about advice you receive on the internet....including anything I might say.

OP needs the Goldilocks trigger, not to heavy, not too light, but just right. We need to start by knowing what is too heavy and too light. Even if OP gets the trigger right, he may have to use Federal ammo (for example) for reliable ignition in case hammer strikes are too light. My 625 had the screw backed out and has about a 6# DA pull, but is only reliable with Federal primers. It is not an SD gun, but you get the idea. I think it is excusable to modify a trigger pull on an SD gun to fit withing one's physical limitations, like altering the gas and brake pedal on a car. A spring kit, some judicious smoothing, etc, may easily bring the DA pull where it needs to be.

 

[pittpa]

The Ruger LCRX (external hammer) revolver in 357 is heavy enough to make shooting 38 a breeze. It has a built in recoil taming system in the small rubber grip. The trigger uses a special camming system making it the smoothest and lightest double action pull on any stock revolver I've shot.

My LCR 9mm does feel lighter as the trigger stroke ends. The trigger pull is 11# overall-it is not broken in. My j-frame with an apex trigger kit is about 10#. This information is of limited use to OP unless OP knows what the trigger pull is on the gun that was fired. Leverage is important as well. I believe OP will probably be certain to need a 3 finger stock on any gun.
Considering how dangerous OP finds single action in a revolver, I can't fathom why OP refuses to give up the hammer on a revolver. It is only good for snagging clothing and cocking for single action.

 

[reddog81]

There are some very good posts above (scooter123 especially), but I'm going to try and add something.

I'm going to guess the model 10 is around 3 or 4 pounds trigger pull SA and 9 to 10 pounds double action. You might be able to shave the DA pull down a bit with a new mainspring or a trigger job but realistically all revolvers are going to be around these figures.

Maybe you could get a heavier mainspring to increase the single action pull to something acceptable but then double action pull will be even higher.

On something like a 1911 you shouldn't need to rack the slide in a self defense situation. All you should have to do is depress the grip safety, release the thumb safety if engaged and you should be able to get your 5 lbs trigger weight. You can replace the recoil spring to something lighter and cock the hammer before racking. With the proper technique this is a very easy move.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Getting hard to find but an old 5 screws model 10(actually before the numbered designation)long action is pretty smoth to begin with.And the SA is sooooo sweet and easy to cock.The Python would also fill the same needs but not at the same price.I wish you luck in your search;sometimes real bargains can be found.
Qc