Help please, Roper grip info *More PICS added* 10/25

digi-shots

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Came across another set of grips that I believe are Ropers. I'll take some pics later tonite and post them. They have the "ribbon" design on the front with 2 peg holes (square) on the back.

I've been reading past threads on Roper grips and have a few questions...

What years or time span were Roper grips made?

Were they all made by Matheis Gagne or did Mr. Roper have other employees also making them? I understand that Gagne's son worked for S&W and made grips incorporating some of his father's design features.

Seems to me that if just one guy was making these grips, there can't be too many of them around. Does anyone know if there are there production numbers available?
 
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Came across another set of grips that I believe are Ropers. I'll take some pics later tonite and post them. They have the "ribbon" design on the front with 2 peg holes (square) on the back.

I've been reading past threads on Roper grips and have a few questions...

What years or time span were Roper grips made?

Were they all made by Matheis Gagne or did Mr. Roper have other employees also making them? I understand that Gagne's son worked for S&W and made grips incorporating some of his father's design features.

Seems to me that if just one guy was making these grips, there can't be too many of them around. Does anyone know if there are there production numbers available?
 
Linda

For sure, more than one pair were made ! They started somewhere in the early 1930's,
but I don't know if any were made after the War.

Walter Roper was a factory employee for a long time - but I don't know if any, or how
many, were made at the S&W factory. I once had a pair of Ropers in the original shipping
box, and the return adress adress was Walter Ropers, not the factory.

I would guess there are several thousand pairs of those grips in existence.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
Ok, here are the pics...

yea, I know... they're for a "E" frame Colt
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gungripsRoperColtOMOP1.jpg


gungripsRoperColtOMOP2.jpg


gungripsRoperColtOMOP3.jpg
 
Walter Roper worked for S&W in the 1920s. He left and ran his own businesses (grips, sights, firearms consulting, writing) in the 1930s. He first offered his custom stocks in mid-1934. All the revolver grips/stocks were made by Mathias Gagne, although his son and other family members helped him. In later years Roper hired W.D.H. Nichols to specialize in stocks for automatic pistols. Also, when demand peaked, Roper offered a machine checkered stock that was a few dollars cheaper. Sometimes we debate whether or not a set of stocks is really of Roper design when they are missing the "ribbon" or 3-lobed pattern that is so characteristic of Gagne's work. I believe that there are plenty of authentic Roper grips that are fully checkered but they are either a) very early or b) later, machine checkered stocks. Many of the automatic pistol stocks do not have the ribbon because they were carved by Nichols.

Gagne's son did work in the stocking department at S&W and designed the original "Coke bottle" grips of the 1950s.

The Volume 39, Number 2 (Summer 2005) issue of the S&WCA Journal carries an article with some detail about Roper and his grips. Sources cited:

"Some New Grips for S&W Revolvers," F.C. Ness, The American Rifleman, Dope Bag, August, 1934
"The Mechanics of Handgun Stocks" by Howard Langley, The American Rifleman, November, 1941
Pistol and Revolver Shooting by Walter F. Roper, The Macmillan Company, New York, 1945
Smith & Wesson Hand Guns by Roy C. McHenry and Walter F. Roper, Standard Publication, Incorporated, Huntington, West Virginia, 1945
Experiments of a Handgunner by Walter F. Roper, Stackpole and Heck, Inc., New York, 1949
The Pistol Shooter's Book by Charles Askins, The Telegraph Press, Harrisburg, PA, 1953
Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting and Police Training by Ed McGivern, Wilcox & Follett Co., New York, 1957
"Double-Action Shooting," Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, circa 1947
"Notes on Pistols," Boyd Cherry, The American Rifleman, January, 1948
"Well, I'll be darned…," Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, March, 1948
"Custom Stocks," Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, June, 1948
"Handgun Grips," Elliott Jones, The American Rifleman, circa 1949
"Custom-Made Revolver and Pistol Stocks and Their Value to the Target Shooter," Edward A. Kiessling, The U.S. Hand-gunner, May, 1952
Walter F. Roper obituary, Springfield Daily News, April 1, 1954
Walter F. Roper obituary, The American Rifleman, August, 1954

Those are beautiful Colt stocks and would look much better on a pre-war revolver than a Python.
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Kevin

The pair of stocks I had , in their original shipping box, were not
checkered. I think the "big deal" about Roper stocks is that they were,
or could be, sized to fit a particular hand.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
Very nice lookin' set of Ropers there, Digi-shots. (I agree that you better buy a prewar OMT for 'em if you don't have one in the stable already. Nice!)

If you don't mind my asking -- and if you do, no problem -- what'd you wind up payin' for 'em?
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We have several sets of Roper stocks, and in some cases value them as highly as the revolver they are on.

Most all were custom made to fit the shooters hand. A couple pairs of Roper stocks we have are not comfortable in my hand at all as the palm swell varied so much to fit the shooter.

One of these days I am going to stack some of them up from the back, and photograph them so you can see the grip variations.

Even the few little marks on the ones you picture in my opinion add to their value, and attest to their authenticity.
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Kevin,

Thanks for all the info and for citing the sources. I'll have to see about getting a copy of the S&WCA Summer 2005 vol. 39, #2 Journal.

I just found out that there's a copy of "Experiments of a Handgunner" on the way to me right now! (my hubby ordered it)
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Onomea...

No current plans on getting an Officers Match Target, but you know how plans can change at a moments notice.
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The grips were a "package deal" and came with a 1968 Trooper .357 for $379.
Here's a pic of the gun & grips:

gunColtTrooperRopers.jpg
 
One thing about Ropers is that they seem to have been much more common
on Colts, than on S&W's. That is similar to King full-rib conversions. There
are many more of those on Colt Officer Models than on S&W's .

So - its not surprising to see this pair turn up on a Colt.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
Originally posted by digi-shots:

The grips were a "package deal" and came with a 1968 Trooper .357 for $379.
You got a "Steal" deal on the Ropers and kind of got 'stuck' with the gun. These Early Troopers are a pretty nice gun - just a Python with a funny looking barrel - but they have always been a hard sell around this part of the World. Of course, the Northwest is hard core Smith and Wesson Country because almost all the LEOs up here carried Smiths for Years. In the '60s and until the '80s the State Patrol issued Model 28s to all their officers and I understand that when you completed your first ten years they gave them a Model 27 since "They" figured the his might just be planning on staying around. MAK
 
Mike,
Did you keep any pictures of the Roper box and uncheckered grips? I'd like to see them. Also, is your observation about Colt vs. S&W Ropers just based on "gut feel" or do you have some data to support it? I've logged a lot of Ropers and my impression is that S&W grips outnumber Colts by about 2 to 1. Given that Roper was located in Springfield, was a former employee of S&W and was an officer of the USRA, he had a much bigger influence on the S&W shooters (I think).

Regards,
Kevin
 
Kevin

I sold the grips and box to Pete deRose, who I would assume still has them.
You might contact him about pictures, etc.

Years ago, Ray Brazille was very active in King conversion guns. Don't know
why, but he had a lot of them. Even lots of spare parts. By far, most were
Colt. Ray had a gun shop at the time. Most of King full conversions had
Roper stocks - they may even have been advertised in the King Catalog.
That is why I think that more were for Colt, than S&W. And, Ray never had a
problem finding Roper stocks for Colts.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
I have several pairs of Ropers on pre-war Colt Officer Model Target heavy barrel revolvers. The reason I think you see more Ropers on Colts is that in the mid 30's the Colt Officer heavy barrel revolver was thought of as the premier target revolver. If you look in the old American Riflemen magazines from the thirties you will find they are full of ads showing how well Colt revolvers were doing in target competions. The Colt Officer Model Target heavy barrel was so successful with target shooters that it ended up hurting the sales of the Colt Shooting Master. I'm not saying anything bad about Smiths I collect them as well, but even King pushed the Colt Officers Model in there ads.
 

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