Help! problems with 38 loads

[Qc Pistolero]

When confronted to a problem,do not go changing more than 1 thing at a time.If you use only 1 type of primer and trim your cases and change your charge and etc etc...,you'll never find out what was wrong.I'd start by using 1 brand of primers,try 25 rds and if the problem persists,I'd try another brand.If it still is not solved,look at something else(qty of powder,crimp,OAL,etc)but always one at a time.
Qc

 

[71velle]

I figure the problem lies in the crimp. The Lee die instructions state that the seater die can be adjusted to provide a crimp so I will start there. I do have a bunch of cases ready for powder and bullet since I batch load on a single stage. I will try 20 and report back.

Thanks for all the help!!!

 

[71velle]

Just returned from the range and the problem is solved!!! I set the seating die to provide some crimp and set the factory crimp die to a heavy crimp. The crimp may be a little much but I wanted to make sure. The rounds were consistent and much less soot on the brass.

Thanks for all the help!!!! Its great to be able to tap in to all of the experience!!

 

[Hillbilly77]

Just returned from the range and the problem is solved!!! I set the seating die to provide some crimp and set the factory crimp die to a heavy crimp. The crimp may be a little much but I wanted to make sure. The rounds were consistent and much less soot on the brass.

Thanks for all the help!!!! Its great to be able to tap in to all of the experience!!

And it gave you an excuse to head back to the range and do some more shooting.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I see that you are using a four die set. Is the last die a FCD resizing both the case and the bullet?

Here's another thought. When the FCD is used it reduces the case and bullet. Case neck tension is lost and now your bullets are loose and undersized.

Try to push you reload against your bench edge to see if the bullet moves.

You can also measure the diameter of the reload at the bullet shank before and after using the FCD.

I will not use a FCD as it will take a .357"-.358" bullet and will reduce the diameter to .354" or less resulting in a loose and inaccurate bullet.

Check it for yourself and just use the size, bell and crimp dies only. That was all that was ever needed and still works today.

Bruce

Bruce - the Lee Factory Crimp Die uses a roll crimp. Are you thinking of the Lee Taper crimp die? A roll crimp could not reduce the diameter of the bullet. ????

Edited - my bad. I did not realize the rifle and pistol factory crimp dies were different.
The day one quits learning is the day they die.

 

[427mach1]

Bruce - the Lee Factory Crimp Die uses a roll crimp. Are you thinking of the Lee Taper crimp die? A roll crimp could not reduce the diameter of the bullet. ????

Edited - my bad. I did not realize the rifle and pistol factory crimp dies were different.
The day one quits learning is the day they die.

You were correct the first time. The folks at Lee are smart enough to know that a roll crimp is required for cartridges that headspace on the base or shoulder (most bottleneck rifle and revolver calibers) and a taper crimp is used on cartridges that headspace on the mouth (most semi-autos).

I don't believe the theory that the FCD reduces the bullet diameter anywhere other than under the crimp. I've been using the Lee FCD on several calibers because I believe that seating and crimping in one step will shave a little copper off the bullet. As the crimp is being applied, the bullet is still moving down in the brass, possibly shearing off a small amount of copper from the bullet. I'm loading some 38 right now with 125 Berry's. I'll pull a few and check the diameter before and after and post the results.

 

[muddocktor]

Glad to hear you figured your problem out 71velle. With my 357/38 Lee factory crimp die I always use about a 3/4 turn crimp setting on the FCD. I turn it down until contact when at the top of the ram stroke on the press, then back off a bit on the ram and turn the adjustment screw on the top of the FCD another 3/4 turn. I scribed a line across the top of the adjustment screw on the FCD to make it easy to index it after finding where it comes in contact with the case mouth.

 

[427mach1]

I couldn't stand the suspense so I went and loaded a couple dummy 38 rounds using 125 grain Berry bullets. Using mixed headstamps, I noticed that the PMC brass required the most effort to push through the FCD, while the R-P required the least. I loaded one of each using what I consider a medium crimp, trying to duplicate the appearance of the factory rounds. Then I pulled the bullets. The bullets mic'd at 0.356 before seating and crimping and 0.356 after, no change other than the crimp.

 

[mike campbell]

Just returned from the range and the problem is solved!!! I set the seating die to provide some crimp and set the factory crimp die to a heavy crimp. The crimp may be a little much but I wanted to make sure. The rounds were consistent and much less soot on the brass.

Thanks for all the help!!!! Its great to be able to tap in to all of the experience!!

Just a caution...you CAN over-crimp on those plated bullets, so don't get to thinking that even more is even better.

You want enough crimp for good combustion and to prevent bullet creep, but too much can compromise the plated jacket. The makers warn about this. If you see any evidence of odd-shaped or ragged holes in the target when most holes are round, it's an indication the plating is tearing. I love the plated stuff for my auto cartridges, but I've moved away from loading them in 38 and 44 revolvers because I got tired of dancing around this same issue. Taper crimping works in heavy revolvers, but even that places restrictions on powder choice and accuracy potential.

 

[Wise_A]

^^Agreed. Except I get by with not even 1/4 a turn on my Lee dies! That said, I mostly stick to very fast powders for .38 anyway.

I personally still suspect that the problem might actually be occurring in the expansion step. The crimp, I believe, is band-aid-ing it.

 

[71velle]

Just a caution...you CAN over-crimp on those plated bullets, so don't get to thinking that even more is even better.

You want enough crimp for good combustion and to prevent bullet creep, but too much can compromise the plated jacket. The makers warn about this. If you see any evidence of odd-shaped or ragged holes in the target when most holes are round, it's an indication the plating is tearing. I love the plated stuff for my auto cartridges, but I've moved away from loading them in 38 and 44 revolvers because I got tired of dancing around this same issue. Taper crimping works in heavy revolvers, but even that places restrictions on powder choice and accuracy potential.

^^Agreed. Except I get by with not even 1/4 a turn on my Lee dies! That said, I mostly stick to very fast powders for .38 anyway.

I personally still suspect that the problem might actually be occurring in the expansion step. The crimp, I believe, is band-aid-ing it.

Unfortunately, I have about 100/150 cases ready for powder and bullet so I will try expanding less on the next batch. I didnt realize the importance of a crimp either.

Being new to this its great having experienced and knowledgeable guys to help. I wish I posed the problem a little earlier!!

Thanks again for all the advice!!!!!