Help with 66-1 valuation please

[MTC(SS)Ret]

Dropped into a LGS today for a look see and a nice shiny revolver drew my attention. The wife saw me standing there staring into the display case and asked me why I was drooling....LOL. Quite simple, I replied, but she didn't get it.
There, calling my name, was a Model 66-1. I asked to take a look and the young lady behind the counter obliged.
A beautiful Model 66-1, 4" barrel, with what appeared to be the original Diamond Target stocks (perfect grain match on the butt). The only blemish on the S/S finish were a few very small spots of discoloration on the top strap by the rear sight mount. Very faint turn line on the cylinder, no discernable flame cutting above the forcing cone, tight lockup and no endshake on the cylinder. Very smooth and guess about a 10# DA pull and crisp 3# SA.
I didn't get the whole serial number but it started 4K**** which I believe is the 1972-1974 time frame. I didn't think to ask if they had the box and papers...DUH!!!
The tag said $899.99 and when I asked was told they would take $850. Wife was tugging on my shirt tail so I didn't have more time for haggling or to ask if I could take so photos. I am by no means a expert but overall I would rate this specimen 95%.
So what say ye, my friends, is their asking price fair? I am not dead set on acquiring this for any particular reason, perhaps other than it would keep my 17-2 company in the safe.

Thank you in advance for any of your gracious replies.

 

[Marshal Tom]

Hi, with the box and docs it is probably worth that much but I suspect it is a bit high without those items. It is a wonderful revolver and the dash 1 does not show up all that often so If you want it, go and get it.

 

[tlawler]

Barrel length will be a big determining factor. $899 would be a fantastic price for a snubbie, a pretty good price for a 4”, and a so-so price for a 6”, based on your description of condition. At that price, I’d doubt it would have original box, tools and paperwork, but if it did, that would increase the value by $200 or so.

Edit to add: Ah…you added barrel length as I was typing

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

I checked GB and they didn't have any 66-1's for comparison, only 66-8's.
My limited research leads me to believe the 66-1 was only made from 1972-1974, then they came out with the 66-2.

 

[PeteC]

If you mean diamond-center stocks, I dont think those would have been original on this gun, because S&W stopped shipping them before 1970, when the first Model 66 (no dash) was introduced. If you mean target stocks with checkered grip panels, then yes, that type is original to a Model 66. (actually learned that here ). Someone else will have to explain the finer points.

I would not turn down the gun because it had the older, and more valuable diamond center grips. You could always trade them to someone.

If the gun is in the condition described, $800~850 may be a good price where you are. Look for signs of holster wear on the barrel and cylinder (spots that look shiny, compared to the brushed finsh), wear on the stocks (chips, flattened checkering, dirt in the border around the checkered panel). Look under the grips for black corrosion spots. If they offered to drop the price by $50 without haggling, I would try to get it for $800.
Having said all that, I love mine...

 

[tlawler]

I checked GB and they didn't have any 66-1's for comparison, only 66-8's.
My limited research leads me to believe the 66-1 was only made from 1972-1974, then they came out with the 66-2.

Chief, check the completed auctions. The first three 4” 66-1’s I saw went for $811, $826, and $910.

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

If you mean diamond-center stocks, I dont think those would have been original on this gun, because S&W stopped shipping them before 1970, when the first Model 66 (no dash) was introduced. If you mean target stocks with checkered grip panels, then yes, that type is original to a Model 66. (actually learned that here ). Someone else will have to explain the finer points.

I would not turn down the gun because it had the older, and more valuable diamond center grips. You could always trade them to someone.

If the gun is in the condition described, $800~850 may be a good price where you are. Look for signs of holster wear on the barrel and cylinder (spots that look shiny, compared to the brushed finsh), wear on the stocks (chips, flattened checkering, dirt in the border around the checkered panel). Look under the grips for black corrosion spots. If they offered to drop the price by $50 without haggling, I would try to get it for $800.
Having said all that, I love mine...

I could be mistaken about the stocks having the diamond, ...otherwise they were identical to yours. I didn't see any holster wear at all on the finish and the stocks were excellent.
My wife just asked me "Are you STILL thinking about that gun?". Well DUHHHH...of course I am!

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

Chief, check the completed auctions. The first three 4” 66-1’s I saw went for $811, $826, and $910.

Thanks brother...I didn't think about the completed section.

 

[JP@AK]

A beautiful Model 66-1, 4" barrel, with what appeared to be the original Diamond Target stocks (perfect grain match on the butt).

I didn't get the whole serial number but it started 4K**** which I believe is the 1972-1974 time frame.

Something isn't quite right here.

Yes, the 4K numbers were used in 1972, 1973 and 1974, But the Model 66-1 wasn't introduced until 1977.

Moreover, no Model 66, including the dash 1, would have shipped with diamond target stocks. The diamond was eliminated years before the Model 66 was introduced in 1970. The order to eliminate the diamond on K frame target stocks was issued on December 28, 1967.

 

[CH4]

$850 is ok for a - 1 with factory diamond stocks.

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

Obviously I didn't pay as much attention to all the important details as I should have. However I am confident it was a 66-1 as it was stamped on the crane, not so sure about the serial #.
I will definitely keep all of your comments and advice in mind if I decide to look at it again, it's much appreciated.

 

[TheTinMan]

What would the price difference be for a pinned and recessed Model 66 (no dash) with a 4” barrel?

Forgive me if I’m out of line asking here…

 

[Engine49guy]

If we are just talking 4" ers the most collectable version IMO are the early versions with SS rear sites.
The high water mark of the 66 design is arguably the 66-1 which is still P&R but relocated the gas ring from the yoke (not crane) to the cylinder.

On a side note of all my 66's my best shooters are a 66-2 that had a master action job and bone stock 66-3.

 

[PeteC]

If we are just talking 4" ers the most collectable version IMO are the early versions with SS rear sites.
The high water mark of the 66 design is arguably the 66-1 which is still P&R but relocated the gas ring from the yoke (not crane) to the cylinder.

On a side note of all my 66's my best shooters are a 66-2 that had a master action job and bone stock 66-3.

The gas ring was moved first from the cylinder to the yoke, around 1975, without an official engineering change. The undercut on the forcing cone was enlarged to accommodate that first change. Then it was moved BACK to the cylinder in 1977, on the -1 version.

The point of this being, from 1970 to ~1975, the gas ring is on the cylinder. From 1975-1977 it is on the yoke. After 1977, back on the cylinder.

See "Gas Rings" in this article:
The Smith & Wesson L-Frame Story – RevolverGuy.Com


Bottom line, if everything checks out, $850 would be a good deal on a 66-1 and a very good one on a no-dash Model 66 4", especially one with stainless steel rear sight.

 

[Engine49guy]

Thanks for the update, lost all my SW notes this year.
Btw a 66-1 would not have come with a SS rear site in the raw the change to black SS occured during the no dash revision.
(IIRC black rear sites on Model 66's were blackened SS and should have the letter "S" stamped underneath them to identify this).
The whole gas ring thing gets confusing, member SNW357 has some very good observations on this topic and should do a thread (wink) I generalize the 66-1 and 19-4 as having the updated gas ring design but somehow it seemed to migrate back n forth a bit if memory serves but alas my memory is not so great anymore...
(getting old is not fun.)

Ps...I've been a Combat Magnum fan for years but (at least down here in Fl ) I just don't see 4" Model 66-1's pop up for sale very often, I do see dash 1 snubs pop up but the 4" seems a bit elusive.

 

[PeteC]

I really like the look of the M19 and 66, the balance and feel with the stock targets or aftermarket grips like Ahrends or Hogues - shock and disapproval, I know. In my defense, I like them even with rubber grips, especially the UMs, and recently bought another couple pair of those grips from a member.

That article link has been posted here before, and really pulled a lot or random data and anecdotal evidence together for me. It's long, but a worthwhile read. Some of what I heard in the past and read on the web now makes better sense. In the 1970's there was a lot of talk about then new stainless steel guns among my fathers friends, including some of the failures and cracked frames (I don't specifically remember words like gas ring). One additional thing I remember is that S&W may have tweaked the stainless steel they used in the mid-70s to make it more machinable.

I have one 66 no-dash bought from a forum member, nice but shooter grade, with ss rear sight, ~1973, gas ring on cylinder. Same on a Model 67 no-dash, ~1972, verified 1st production year for that model. I can post detailed pics, but it would just derail this thread to do that here.

Having said all that, I would be very interested in learning more about the gun in the original post. I agree the description does not all add up.

4K prefix, AND stainless sights make it a ~1973~ no-dash, similar to mine, not a -1.

No dash or -1, if I saw it locally, and in the condition described and no other issues, for $800~850, with no shipping, no extra FFL fees, I would be putting money on the counter today! (mine can always use a friend)

The stocks in my pic are the type the gun would have shipped with, but have been rounded at the bottom, and refinished. Other than that, I believe the gun is a moderately worn 66 no-dash, with original stainless steel sights, retired from the Shreveport LA Police Department. The original finish would have been brushed stainless steel.

 

[robvious]

sadly for the OP... if it is a smoking deal, as some have suggested... it will likely be gone if he goes back... most old S&W revolvers around here don't last long at reasonable prices...

 

[Dvus]

If you haven't got it already...GO GET IT!

 

[lppd4]

Sounds reasonable to me. Great guns by the way

 

[Xfuzz]

IMHO....
In today's gun market if/when you spot a desirable
Smith waiting around for a better deal
can be a mistake.

If you can comfortably afford it drop the hammer.
The S&W you mentioned is well within the buy it range.