Help with a 38/44 HD and new ones added!

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Can anyone help me date a few things I've had trouble finding info on?

38/44 Heavy Duty I recently bought. I am not super familiar with them but always wanted one and couldn't pass up the $650 price tag, plus I had a gold box for it already. It's a 4" (blued, serial number S73886. I believe it would be what some would call a transition gun as it has the pre-war long action and I think what you would call a dog-ear hammer? I don't think the grips are correct, the frame is a bit longer than the grips. Would love info on what grips to look for to make it correct.

I'd also love if someone could help me date a 22/32 kit gun, 4" round butt, blued flat latch in the original red box. The serial number is 7354.

Thirdly, a M&P .38 Pre-10 serial # S863435, it is a 5" blued square butt, in immaculate condition. It's in a what I believe to be period correct gold box that's properly marked 5" blued square butt.

And last but not least is my pride and joy, a Pre-27, 6" and in the box. S141492 Sadly, the grips fit well but are not matching.

Pictures are attached and I'm so excited to see if anyone can help with any of the guns I've listed along with any unique information I might not know about them.

 

[Retired W4]

Welcome to the forum from Hot 'Lanta. That's a really nice group of revolvers. A point on the gold boxes. S&W put the SN's on the bottom in grease pencil which tended to get rubbed off during handling. Look closely with a bright light for the remnants of the SN's.

 

[Truckman]

Ooof!...That is a killer first post (and a great username by the way), welcome to the forums...The best I can so is contribute some estimated manufacture dates, but to get an accurate shipping date will take a letter of authenticity from Don Mundell at the SWHF...

The .38/44 is from the 1949-50 era...I'll defer the Kit Gun estimate to someone more familiar with that model...Your M&P is an early postwar production from 1945-48...Your .357 Magnum Revolver dates to about 1955-56...You're off to a great start!......Ben

 

[spin132]

Can anyone help me date a few things I've had trouble finding info on?



38/44 Heavy Duty I recently bought. I am not super familiar with them but always wanted one and couldn't pass up the $650 price tag, plus I had a gold box for it already. It's a 5" blued, serial number S73886.

Beautiful revolvers, all of them!

That 38/44 looks to be in immaculate condition. This one, with a lot more wear than your's, is a 4" model (S902xx) that shipped Nov. of 1952. You can see the difference in the hammers between the two that suggests to me that your's may be a transitional.

Are you sure it's a 5" barrel, looks like a 4" to my eyes. Maybe it's just the photo.

 

[Baxter6551]

Wow what a nice collection!!!

 

[22hipower]

I think your HD probably shipped in 1949 or 1950. I have S67XXX which shipped in 1946. And a couple other N frames in the 77XXX range that both shipped in 1951. As noted above, you'll need a letter to know exactly when and to where it shipped.

The kit gun is a Model of 1953 on the improved I frame. I have SN 13357 which shipped in 1955 so yours probably shipped in 1954. Again, you would need a letter to know for sure. Or membership in the SWCA in which case the good Dr. Jinks will provide a ship month/year for free.

I have an early post war M&P, SN S837418, which shipped in 1946. Yours probably shipped then or in 1947. All the S numbered ones are from 1946-1948.

All of my guns in the S14X,XXX range shipped in 1954/55 so your 357 Magnum, and I think "pre-27" terminology is ok too, probably did as well.

Nice collection, enjoy.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

Awesome group, thanks for share.
Take the measurement of the 38/44 HD barrel, it looks just like a four inches

 

[Glashaus]

Very nice group of S&W's! I have two post war 4" Heavy Duties. I have a letter on one , serial number S74447 that shipped 6/14/49

 

[DARE]

The transitional guns were called so because they had a mixture of pre-war and post war features. On pre-war N frames the grip frame was a little bit longer. That is probably why the grips are short. I think the change on grip frame length was about 1950. You need grips that were made before the change. Pre-war or pre 1950.

 

[JP@AK]

M&P .38 Pre-10 serial # S863435, it is a 5" blued square butt

It very likely shipped in January, 1947.

S863344 and S863576 are in my database; both are 5" units. I have also recorded the stocks from S863475, but that's all I know about that one.

Yours is in very nice shape. Do check the bottom of the box carefully to see if there is a trace of the serial number there. It is certainly period correct.

 

[bigmitty]

Did you check the inside of the right grip to see if it's numbered to your revolver.I'm talking about the 38/44 HD.

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Ooof!...That is a killer first post (and a great username by the way), welcome to the forums...The best I can so is contribute some estimated manufacture dates, but to get an accurate shipping date will take a letter of authenticity from Don Mundell at the SWHF...

The .38/44 is from the 1949-50 era...I'll defer the Kit Gun estimate to someone more familiar with that model...Your M&P is an early postwar production from 1945-48...Your .357 Magnum Revolver dates to about 1955-56...You're off to a great start!......Ben

Thank you, and thank you as well for the information. I'm so happy I joined this forum. I've already learned so much.

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Did you check the inside of the right grip to see if it's numbered to your revolver.I'm talking about the 38/44 HD.

Yes I have and they are not matching. I didn't figure they would with how short they were. Another member shared the information that since this is a transitional that the frame is a pre-war and the pre war frames were longer, meaning that I need a set of pre-war N frame grips for this gun. Got any lying around lol?

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Welcome to the forum from Hot 'Lanta. That's a really nice group of revolvers. A point on the gold boxes. S&W put the SN's on the bottom in grease pencil which tended to get rubbed off during handling. Look closely with a bright light for the remnants of the SN's.

Thanks for the information. Luckily I already knew this fact, my K-22 and K-38 (both gold boxes) have matching boxes indicated by grease pencil to the underside of the box. The 22/32 kit gun I mentioned in this post also has its SN written on the bottom of the box. I really appreciate the information, learning is the number #1 reason I'm here!

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

It very likely shipped in January, 1947.

S863344 and S863576 are in my database; both are 5" units. I have also recorded the stocks from S863475, but that's all I know about that one.

Yours is in very nice shape. Do check the bottom of the box carefully to see if there is a trace of the serial number there. It is certainly period correct.

Unfortunately the serial number on the box does not match the gun; and the box is in rather poor condition. The gun however is immaculate. I paid $625 for it but in the condition it is I felt like it was a deal.

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Awesome group, thanks for share.
Take the measurement of the 38/44 HD barrel, it looks just like a four inches

You are correct. I accidentally put 5" but it is definitely 4. I will correct my post!

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Very nice group of S&W's! I have two post war 4" Heavy Duties. I have a letter on one , serial number S74447 that shipped 6/14/49

Pretty close on SN's so this is helpful thank you!

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Wow what a nice collection!!!

Thank you! I have a few more that I'd like some information on, but I didn't want to bombard the group on basically my first day!

 

[rct269]

Thank you! I have a few more that I'd like some information on, but I didn't want to bombard the group on basically my first day!

Just think of it as getting acquainted, rather than bombarding---this bunch doesn't bombard easily!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[JP@AK]

The gun . . . is immaculate. I paid $625 for it but in the condition it is I felt like it was a deal.

It was a perfectly good price in 2023. I own a couple dozen S prefix M&Ps, acquired over the past 12 years. A few years ago, I could buy one like yours for $400-$450. Now, $625 is a fair price, given the market.

I've also been conducting an in-depth research project on them with more than 15,000 units in my database. It may seem like a small addition, but adding yours to the database adds to the collective knowledge in the SWCA about these guns that will be preserved and available to members for many years to come, once I complete my studies. So, thank you for your contribution.

(And to be clear, ownership information is not tracked and will never be disclosed except in a few situations where I have been granted permission to do so. In the vast number of situations there simply is no need for it.)

Regards,

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

It was a perfectly good price in 2023. I own a couple dozen S prefix M&Ps, acquired over the past 12 years. A few years ago, I could buy one like yours for $400-$450. Now, $625 is a fair price, given the market.

I've also been conducting an in-depth research project on them with more than 15,000 units in my database. It may seem like a small addition, but adding yours to the database adds to the collective knowledge in the SWCA about these guns that will be preserved and available to members for many years to come, once I complete my studies. So, thank you for your contribution.

(And to be clear, ownership information is not tracked and will never be disclosed except in a few situations where I have been granted permission to do so. In the vast number of situations there simply is no need for it.)

Regards,

15,000?! That's amazing! You should be proud of the work you've done this far. If I come across any others I'll be sure to contribute them to you. A few years back, seems like you could find well used M&P's in the 300-400 range, I was perfectly happy to add this one because it's 99%, probably the best condition in my collection with a 19-4 and my pre-27 close behind. I added a few pics so you can appreciate it as much as I am!

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

A few more I need help with!

Since you folks seem happy to indulge me in my pursuit for knowledge, I figured I would add a few more from the collection to see if you can enlighten me on ship dates and any other info you may have.

First up is a K-38, SN# K77693. It's 6" blued in the original box and in the 98% condition range. It has a gorgeous set of target grips on it. I thought they were called "coke" grips but this is a K frame and some only equate those with N frames? Maybe someone can give me some more information on them. I would be especially interested to know if they could be ordered and originally come on a K-38, or if this was an addition at a later time. Someone please help!

Secondly, my late grandfather's K-22. I started shooting this revolver when I was 4, and I can't tell you how many thousands of rounds I put on it during my childhood. I used to get off the school bus and set up pop cans and shoot my hearts desire. SN# K153571. Amazingly, it's still in great shape and sports original stocks and the original box I found in my grandfather's belonging after his death. You can appreciate the immense pleasure I had in finding that box in the bottom of an ammo can, and seeing the wax pencil writing that matched it to the pistol of my youth. Out of all the Smith's I own, this one is irreplaceable. My grandfather told me it was the best pistol he ever owned, and now I believe him! Any info you have on it would be awesome!

 

[JP@AK]

K-38, SN# K77693.

Your K-38 Masterpiece probably shipped in 1949, but it might have stayed in the vault until 1950. I show K77436 and K78822 shipping in November, 1949, and K77128 shipping in October of that year. On the other hand, K78197 didn't ship until February, 1950. They didn't ship sequentially and a records search is necessary for certainty.

It has a gorgeous set of target grips on it. I thought they were called "coke" grips but this is a K frame and some only equate those with N frames? Maybe someone can give me some more information on them.

I would be especially interested to know if they could be ordered and originally come on a K-38, or if this was an addition at a later time.

They are not "cokes," but they are non-relieved target stocks, which are very desirable and not cheap to obtain. As for them being original to that gun, it is possible, but I would tend to believe they were added later. Target stocks for the K frame were not available until sometime in 1950. Until those came out, the K target guns were shipping with sharp shoulder Magna stocks. The extractor relief on K frame target stocks showed up around 1954ish (which does not apply to your non-relieved stocks).

If you were to purchase a letter for this K-38, it would tell you the day, month and year it shipped, to whom and the style of stocks that came on it. The letter costs $100 for non-SWCA members, but I believe this revolver is worthy of a letter.

 

[JP@AK]

my late grandfather's K-22. SN# K153571.

This one is from 1952, and I suspect it shipped in the second half of the year.

The Magna stocks on it are the sharp shoulder variety and 1952 is the last year those were available.

That is a very nice K-22 Masterpiece in itself, but the huge added bonus is that it belonged to your grandfather and was your shooter from a young age. You are privileged to be its caretaker.

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Wow, thank you so much for the information for both revolvers. Please feel free to add these to your databases to use as you see fit! I'm definitely considering getting some letters, but I have so many that I want to letter, I don't know which to start with!

 

[DARE]

If you have a lot to letter you might consider joining the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association and the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation. I think it is $60 for the 1st year of S&WCA and a $100 donation to S&WHF.
Letters are $100. $90 if you belong to one organization and $75 if a member of both.
There are some benefits to SWCA membership. Supporting the SWHF makes possible the research to preserve the history of these guns.
You can save some money and do a good thing. Win, win.