Help with differences of opinion on a 1917 S&W

[handejector]

What I see-
The frame and cyl wear the original blue. I see NO signs of a reblue, including the sideplate seam. Not all 1917s had a perfect pre-war fit there.
The barrel is a replacement 1917 Commercial barrel, probably by the Factory in the 30s. Note that the front blade is a little wider and a little more square than on a WW I military 1917. That is because the frames for 1917 Commercials became flat topped in the late 20s or early 30s just like the other N frames and the front blades were widened and flattened---

 

[handejector]

One more thing-
the barrel is not renumbered. It was a finished barrel from the parts bin with high gloss blue. It was numbered freehand, and he merely made a light strike on the first digit, so he made a harder hit. After he punched all the digits, he used a large flat punch, tapping gently, to push the upset metal back down to smooth it up.

 

[walnutred]

Not to mention he would not have had the means or motivation to stamp a matching number on the barrel.

As a Unit Armor I had a stamp set and DID transfer serial numbers where the original part had a serial number. The S&Ws were long out of the system but I worked on M2s down. I agree that I would never have been motivated enough to try and duplicate a US Property stamp or any makers ID mark.

 

[mdmorrissey]

Okay, so after all these opinions, most or all of which were sound advice, what was the outcome or resolution?

First of all I wanted to say a great big "thank you" to the Forum members who contributed here. Its great to know that we have a place to come for some great, objective opinions and information.

I purposely stayed out of the fray by not making any comments because I didn't want to sway the decision-making. As a side bar, to me, the bluing on the gun (other than the barrel) looks to be original. The only issue that I had was with the barrel itself.

Based on the input, the seller has generously agreed to accept a refund on the revolver and make things right between he and I on this transaction - a true stand up guy! What is upsetting is that he had purchased this piece from one of those large commercial operations who simply churn-and-burn through guns to make a profit. I would wager that 99% of their employees know only enough about the guns they are representing and selling to be dangerous. THey profited on this particular transaction and the individual who purchased the gun got stuck with taking a loss. So it all comes back to caveat emptor, and an unkowledgeable buyer truly does stand the chance of taking it in the shorts. Again - caveat emptor.

BTW, to me, this gun isn't a ***, but rather has lost its collectors value and likely still does have value as a shooter. If properly described, advertised and priced as such, a future buyer should walk away happy with a nice shooting big bore revolver and the gun will have found a happy home. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks again to all - greatly appreciated!

 

[TheTinMan]

This thread has been very educational for me. Terry's photo album of a virtually perfect S&W 1917 are a great resource, and Lee's explanation of the appearance of the serial number on the barrel sounds spot on.

Chip

 

[mdmorrissey]

As another aside, this is the second one of these (M1917 that had been rebarreled with a barrel that has a heavy deep bluing, lacks "USP" markings and no serial number on the barrel flat, but otherwise original) that I have encountered. So be careful as they are out there. I am attaching pix of that particular gun. From my photos, you can clearly see the differences in finish between the frame and barrel.

In that case, the seller did state that the gun had been reblued (didn't mention anything about lack of "USP" markings or serial number on the barrel flat). From the photos he used, the rear section of the revolver looked good, but those of the barrel area wasn't clear enough to detect the deep, high gloss blued finish (nor were there any pix of the bottom which would have shown the lack of markings/serial). In my haste I ended up buying it, thinking that the seller was wrong, but in the end, it was me who was wrong. The good news is, in that case I didn't pay much for the gun (since it was described as a reblue) and was able to resell it, properly described to a buyer who wanted a big bore shooter.

In this case, I simply got sloppy in my decision-making and will never buy another one of these without seeing a photo of the bottom of the barrel/barrel flat. Hopefully my "learning lessons" as posted here will help others - my way of paying it back to the Forum.

Do any members know what the deal was with rebarreling these guns with a highly polished, deep blue barrel that lack any USP markings? In both of my cases, there were no S&W factory rebuild markings on the left grip frame, so it seems like some other entity did the work? Maybe they got some surplus S&W barrels, refinished them and then did the work themselves? Just curious.

 

[VaTom]

No expert but do own a 1917 Commercial and have studied them in the 4th SCSW and on this forum. A note about barrels that I learned. The triple milled barrel flat ended in 1927. See Lester357 post above for picture of triple milled barrel flat. From 4th SCSW Appendix C, page 493 Change Dates: "-1927 ......... single milling cut under barrel on all hand ejector models, Jan. 22."
also see the picture of my Commercial 1917. Enlarge to see the triple mill barrel flat.

Hope this may be of help when trying to identify if a barrel has been changed to a latter barrel on a Military 1917 from WWI era.