Help with "High Horn" vs. "Sharp Shoulder" Magnas

[Eric158]

I need help from Forum members regarding "high horn" and "sharp shoulder" magna grips. I just acquired a K-22 Combat Masterpiece, Serial# 128XXX, which I believe dates it to 1951. Unfortunately the original grips are missing. I'd like to pick up a pair of diamond magnas off eBay, but am not sure which style would be correct. I've read past discussions on this issue, but it still confuses me. Would someone please tell me which style would be correct for my 1951 K frame, and show me how to differentiate it from the other style - maybe with photos? I've identified some potential grips on eBay.

 

[Hoosier45]

Help with "High Horn" vs. "Sharp Shoulder" Magnas

In short neither. You just need the standard K-Diamond Magna stocks. In my understanding, “high-horn” is reserved for the J-frame stocks used on early Model 40/42s (amongst others) that extend higher up the frame than others. Whereas “sharp shoulder” refers to early postwar stocks in which the contour of the wood at the top of the Magnas has a noted shoulder/edge like the pre-war Magnas. Sharp shoulder Magnas were basically gone pre-1951.
I need a better photo, but the left is a sharp-shoulder and the right is the later “normal” style in which the defined shoulder/contour is in the middle.

A well-defined edge/shoulder along the top, then flat along the side towards the medallion:

High-horn:

 

[Eric158]

So the whole high horn/sharp shoulder issue does not apply to K frame magnas, and is unique to J frame grips?

 

[Hoosier45]

So the whole high horn/sharp shoulder issue does not apply to K frame magnas, and is unique to J frame grips?

High-horns for J frames and sharp-shoulder for early postwar K & N Frames. I don’t collect K-frames or J frames... so there may be other interpretations or examples I’m not aware of, but this is my understanding of the nomenclature.

 

[Eric158]

THANKS Hoosier45!! I really appreciate the education and assistance!

 

[Absalom]

High-horns for J frames and sharp-shoulder for early postwar K & N Frames. I don’t collect K-frames or J frames... so there may be other interpretations or examples I’m not aware of, but this is my understanding of the nomenclature.

I can assure you that you got it right.

High-horn and sharp-shoulder have nothing to do with each other in normal terminology.

For post-war K-frames, the distinction between sharp-shoulder magnas (1946 to early 1950s) and rounded-shoulder magnas is all that matters.

I am not certain which type a 1951 K-22 would have originally had. At least M&P’s still shipped with sharp shoulders in that year.

PS: A quick forum search produced some relevant posts from folks who know more than I do, indicating that the change happened during 1952 and a 1951 K-22 would still have had sharp-shoulder magnas.

 

[JP@AK]

Hi Eric

Hoosier45 is close, but not quite correct. The sharp shoulder Magna stocks lasted until the end of 1952 or early 1953. The softened shoulder started showing up early in the year 1953. So, sharp shoulder Magna stocks would be correct for your .22 Combat Masterpiece from 1951.

For other matters of clarification:
1. In collector-speak, it is common to see the 4" variant listed as a "K-22 Combat Masterpiece." However, this was never the factory name for it. It was simply the .22 Combat Masterpiece, and the same terminology applies to the .38 Special version.
2. Your serial number as listed in your post is incomplete. The K is part of the serial number and it is important. So you have .22 Combat Masterpiece s/n K128XXX, which should have shipped in 1951 as you surmised.

 

[Eric158]

Wow - This is turning out to be harder (but also very interesting) than I thought. So sharp-shoulder magnas would be correct for my 1951 K-22 Combat Masterpiece?

 

[Hoosier45]

Hi Eric

Hoosier45 is close, but not quite correct. The sharp shoulder Magna stocks lasted until the end of 1952 or early 1953. The softened shoulder started showing up early in the year 1953. So, sharp shoulder Magna stocks would be correct for your .22 Combat Masterpiece from 1951.

For other matters of clarification:
1. In collector-speak, it is common to see the 4" variant listed as a "K-22 Combat Masterpiece." However, this was never the factory name for it. It was simply the .22 Combat Masterpiece, and the same terminology applies to the .38 Special version.
2. Your serial number as listed in your post is incomplete. The K is part of the serial number and it is important. So you have .22 Combat Masterpiece s/n K128XXX, which should have shipped in 1951 as you surmised.

What he said! The timeline for K versus N frame Stocks is slightly different and thankfully these guys posted a more precise range for K-frames. Let’s save Target Stocks for another time lol!

 

[JP@AK]

Since we are dealing with technicalities in this thread, let me offer another bit of information about postwar Magna stocks.

There were actually two versions of the Magna stocks shipping in the immediate postwar period. Both had the sharp shoulders. The first style only shipped in the spring of 1946, with the last known example shipping on revolver number S818072. This type had the prewar style checkering, which is more extensive than that used on the later and more common postwar Magna stocks.

The true postwar Magna stocks, with the newer, more confined checkered area, became standard until the aforementioned change in early 1953.

This photo shows two early S prefix M&P revolvers, one with each of the two styles of sharp shoulder Magna stocks:

 

[Eric158]

I so hate finding vintage Smiths missing their original grips, as no doubt you all have also encountered!

 

[Hondo44]

This photo shows two early S prefix M&P revolvers, one with each of the two styles of sharp shoulder Magna stocks:

Jack's photos and comments are right on:

Notice the pre war style sharp shoulder Magnas on the top gun have four very sharp corners on the checkering field. These were also used on early post war guns until inventory was exhausted.

The post war style sharp shoulder Magnas on the bottom gun has round corners on the slightly smaller checkering field.

 

[DWalt]

The eBay pictures do show a pair of sharp shoulder Magna grips. They are fairly commonly seen on eBay, or at least they used to be. I have always felt they seem a bit "classier" than the rounded shoulder variety. My choice for a Combat Masterpiece is a pair of the factory smooth wood "Presentation" target grips. They look and feel to be "just right" for a CM. The one shown below is my late 50s Dallas PD cop gun. Perfect except for lots of holster wear.

 

[Eric158]

Thanks everyone!! I now know what to look for.

 

[cmansguns]

Get us some pics! You know the rules....and others want to drool too. We'll even get through some pics with no grips if you have too.

Below pics are my all original K 22 Masterpiece. The grips are numbered to the gun and the serial number is only 3 digits (K905) so 1946 or pretty early 1947. Haven't got around to Lettering yet but intend to do so soon as funds loosen up.

The s/n on the right grip panel is not penciled, or painted, it is stamped directly into the wood and is very clear and pronounced.

Mine is a 6" Pinned barrel, with Call gold bead front sight, and "short action" high speed hammer.

To me, these stocks are "sharp shoulder Magna's"

 

[JP@AK]

the serial number is only 3 digits (K905) so 1946 or pretty early 1947

I'd bet money it shipped in 1947.

The s/n on the right grip panel is not penciled . . . it is stamped directly into the wood and is very clear and pronounced.

Yes. This change took place in the 1930s. There might even be some stocks marked this way in the later 1920s, but I have no absolute proof of that.

To me, these stocks are "sharp shoulder Magna's"

They are; not just "to you."

 

[cmansguns]

Sheesh guys! The OP asked about stocks (grips) and I'm bragging off on my K22 Masterpiece and didn't even add the grips shots (crummy as they are).

The serial number is stamped like I said and although the medallions appear silver in the photo, they are really a "gold", or brass appearance up close with your eyes. The back show the standard black washers (appear to be metal, stamped?).

Anyway OP hope you win the bid on E-Bay...they look good to me and they'll probably look sweet on your K22 too.

 

[chiefdave]

I'd bet money it shipped in 1947.


Yes. This change took place in the 1930s. There might even be some stocks marked this way in the later 1920s, but I have no absolute proof of that.

I know that the teen's and 20's stocks were penciled but did S&W ever stamp grips prior to that? My 1902 has the s/n stamped on the right panel in what appears to be the same size and font used in the 40's.

 

[JP@AK]

The back show the standard black washers (appear to be metal, stamped?).

Yes, they are stamped steel, blued and attached with a brass rivet. In the early postwar days, stocks had a machined steel washer, either in the white or blued.

Here is one pic, but I don't have a photo handy of the blued variety (I own two or three guns with that type but I've never taken a picture of one).

 

[JP@AK]

I know that the teen's and 20's stocks were penciled but did S&W ever stamp grips prior to that? My 1902 has the s/n stamped on the right panel in what appears to be the same size and font used in the 40's.

Good question.

I seem to remember that a Model of 1903 I have with Gutta Percha stocks might have a stamped number. I know they are numbered to the gun, but I'll have to pull it from the safe, remove the stocks and look. If I get to it, I'll let you know.