Help with ID

[magtf388]

This is a US Revolver Company Breaktop 38S&W with a 4" barrel and the Sier# is 5237. Factory grips and factory blue at about 90+%.

Anyone give me an idea on age?

What would a Fair Price be? (So. California Area)

What Co. make a 38S&W round that is safe for this revolver. Yes I know it is NOT 38 Special.

 

[murphydog]

It is an Iver Johnson product and looks to be in very nice condition. If it is in sound mechanical condition, any current factory .38 S & W load (Remington, Winchester, PPU) should be safe - usually a 146 gr lead bullet at a whopping 650 fps or so. Others may have more details as to its age.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[magtf388]

It is an Iver Johnson product and looks to be in very nice condition. If it is in sound mechanical condition, any current factory .38 S & W load (Remington, Winchester, PPU) should be safe - usually a 146 gr lead bullet at a whopping 650 fps or so. Others may have more details as to its age.

Hope this is helpful.

Very Helpful. Is Marked as U.S. Revolver CO and I understand a bit about the relationship to Iver Johnson. Is very sound mechanically. Not sure if I'll get an age on it. Was told 1930's by the Gun Store.....Maybe someone knows more? Thanks a lot.

 

[Texas Star]

My grandfather had one in a flaking nickel finish. His ammo was Western 200 grain Super Police, much like the 1929 load used by the British in Enfield .38's before the Germans lodged a protest against lead bullets in 1938. After, the UK began issuing a jacketed 178 grain bullet.

I think this gun dates from the 1920's or '30's. If that's the original finish, it is far and away the nicest one I've seen.

Someone probably collects these cheaper revolvers, but I've never met anyone who did.

 

[Cyrano]

US Revolver Company was Johnson's second line. I'm pretty sure they're designed for black powder only.

 

[magtf388]

My grandfather had one in a flaking nickel finish. His ammo was Western 200 grain Super Police, much like the 1929 load used by the British in Enfield .38's before the Germans lodged a protest against lead bullets in 1938. After, the UK began issuing a jacketed 178 grain bullet.

I think this gun dates from the 1920's or '30's. If that's the original finish, it is far and away the nicest one I've seen.

Someone probably collects these cheaper revolvers, but I've never met anyone who did.

Thanks. All indication is the blue is original and the frame is going plumb like it should if it is Orginal.

 

[ky wonder]

while my wish is that it is original, I believe that it has been refinished
I have owned sever iver Johnson's thru the years and that is just to nice of a modern bluing job, the frame having been case hardened is plum colored because that is what happens when you blue over case hardened metal

still a very nice gun

 

[Biggfoot44]

I refreshed myself on the IJ models, here's an oversimplified thumbnail:

First Model- Mfg 1894-1896. Single toplatch. Cylinder freewheel when hammer at rest.

Second Model- Mfg 1896-1908. Double toplatch. Cylinder freewheel when hammer at rest.

Third Model- Mfg 1909-1941. Double toplatch. Cylinder locked when hammer at rest.

Only the Third Model was warrented for Smokeless.

But millions of smokeless rounds were fired thru millions of IJ models of all generations, without a reputation for catastrophic failure. Most factory ammo ( non Buffalo Bore) is loaded to very low pressures, probably less than full case BP. Admittedly even with similar peak pressures, the pressure curve would be different.


I'm not going to publicly recomend any ammo not in accordence with factory recomendation. Use your own grownup judgement with either factory loads, or handloads with 5744 loaded to not exceede BP velocities in same gun.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

The US Revolver series was made by Iver Johnson. Yours dates from 1910, the first year of manufacture for this series.
They were originally made from leftover parts from the Second Model Safety Automatic line but proved so popular that IJ continued to make them without changes until 1935.
This info was gleaned from WB Goforth's book on Iver Johnson.
Yours is pretty good condition but even if the finish is original, it doesn't have much value, $150 - 250 tops.
They were very popular and inexpensive guns in their day, selling for about half the price of similar S&W models. But the quality of construction and materials used were not as good.

Stand factory loads as made by Remington should be OK if the gun is in good condition and locks up tight with no play at either hinge or top latch.


John

 

[magtf388]

Thanks for all the info guys...great scoop! I understand any skepticism on the blueing. While I have seen many guns refinished and reblued over the last 45 years this one makes me pause.....60/40 chance is original blue job....but no matter, gun a fine find....lots of fun....will pick up a box of the Rem RNB at 550-600 FPS and fire a whopping 10 rounds through it just for fun. Wishes being what they are, would have loved to seen something like this in a 3" in 38 Spec. not the 38 short that it is. But fun just the same. Anyone else with info please join in....love the feedback.

 

[Cyrano]

I refreshed myself on the IJ models, here's an oversimplified thumbnail:

First Model- Mfg 1894-1896. Single toplatch. Cylinder freewheel when hammer at rest.

Second Model- Mfg 1896-1908. Double toplatch. Cylinder freewheel when hammer at rest.

Third Model- Mfg 1909-1941. Double toplatch. Cylinder locked when hammer at rest.

Only the Third Model was warrented for Smokeless.

But millions of smokeless rounds were fired thru millions of IJ models of all generations, without a reputation for catastrophic failure. Most factory ammo ( non Buffalo Bore) is loaded to very low pressures, probably less than full case BP. Admittedly even with similar peak pressures, the pressure curve would be different.


I'm not going to publicly recomend any ammo not in accordence with factory recomendation. Use your own grownup judgement with either factory loads, or handloads with 5744 loaded to not exceede BP velocities in same gun.

Left photo: First model,partly open, showing single locking lug.

Center photo: second model, note lack of positive cylinder stops and two pins in the frame.

Right photo: Third model. Note positive cylinder stops, four pins in the frame. Not visible: improved metallurgy. Safe for smokeless powder.

Older models shot with smokeless powder generally don't fail catastrophically; instead they stretch a little and become unrepairable. Happens faster with revolvers in 38 S&W because of the greater distance between the lock and the chamber.

 

[magtf388]

Right on!

Thanks much for all the Info!

 

[DWalt]

Regarding modern factory .38 S&W smokeless ammo, it is loaded lightly to approximately duplicate black powder MV and pressure levels, and it is safe for use in any top-break revolver chambered in .38 S&W in sound condition (Buffalo Bore loadings excepted). Smokeless powder loadings for the .38 S&W (and a number of other old cartridges originating during the BP era) first came on the U. S. market in 1894 and quickly displaced BP, although some BP loads were still available until the late 1920s.

 

[41]

Thanks for the information Bigfoot. I have the third model that was my fathers. It has Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works, Fitchsburg, MA on the barrel top strap.

On the bottom of the grip frame it has Pat Nov19,08 Pat's Pending.
Under the trigger guard is the serial number 95311.

 

[magtf388]

Great

Thanks for the information Bigfoot. I have the third model that was my fathers. It has Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works, Fitchsburg, MA on the barrel top strap.

On the bottom of the grip frame it has Pat Nov19,08 Pat's Pending.
Under the trigger guard is the serial number 95311.

That is a nice size pistol. This my other one:

Forehand & Wadsworth in 32.

Forehand & Wadsworth were son in laws of Ethan Allen and partners in Ethan Allen & Co. firm. After Allen's dearth in 1871 the outfit became Forehand & Wadsworth. Wadsworth retired in 1890 and it became Forehand Arms of Woroestef Mass.

This gun dates 1890 to 1902. This all according to Russ Carpenter NRA publisher of the American Rifleman.