Help With Optics For My 627 PC

[Cirrus]

I'd like to know what my options are for optics on my 627PC and what I need. Looking at the gun, it looks like the top strap is already drilled and tapped and all I need to do is remove the one screw that holds the rear sight. I'm assuming I need a base, probably a Weaver style? I'm thinking probably a red dot, reflex sight without magnification.

Does anyone have a setup like this or any other additional info for me? I'd like to use the gun for hog hunting and maybe even a secondary carry for deer season if the right opportunity arose. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Shooting4life]

I would get a red dot. Does not sound like you need much in the way magnification.

 

[roundgunner]

Look at these.

JP Rifles

 

[scooter123]

Here are a couple of options.

One, a J Point reflex. As you can see I really do like this sight.

While it's not perfect it does work very well in spite a few minor flaws. If you want improved optical quality you can try hunting up a Doctor reflex but they can be difficult to find. BTW, JP rifles manufactures both the J Point and mounts for either the J Point or Doctor. Total cost with shipping will likely run close to 400 bucks so they aren't cheap. Big plus is that you won't have the convergence issues with a rail mounted sight. Another plus is it's very easy to modify a standard holster so they fit perfectly. Links to JP Rifles and my range report on the J Point follow, make sure to pay attention to shortening the rear mounting screw as noted later in my report.

JP Rifles

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/155300-purchased-2-more-j-point-reflex-sights-range-report.html

Second option is a handgun scope. I've found that my practical limit for shooting with a reflex is about 40 yards. Blame that on old eyes that don't see as well as they once did. Hangun scopes make it a lot easier to really reach out there and score a good hit at long range.

As you can see the sight line is well above the barrel. As a result you have the potential for convergence issues making the sight sensitive to distance. IMO the best distance for sighting a scope is in the 35-50 yard range. Doing this means that the gun will shoot low at closer ranges but you don't face the risk of it shooting way high at long ranges due to too much convergence between sight and barrel axis.

 

[wantmoresmiths]

Cirrus, you are correct, you will need to purchase some sort of a scope base. This video will show you exactly what you need to do to remove the existing rear sight. Smith & Wesson K L N Frame Scope Mount Weigand Weaver Style - YouTube The J point is certainly a nice option, and offers the advantage of keeping the dot low and close to the axis of the bore. Most other red dots will require a weaver style base, which does move the sight away from the bore. Since I use my 627 for ICORE competition, I went with the C-more railway (reflex style) red dot, on a weaver style base. If I were buying a new red dot I would opt for the new C-more RTS sight, shown on the right in this photo. http://www.shootingusa.com/TV_SCHEDULE/SHOW_30-08/C-MoreSTSL.jpg The other option is a "tube" style red dot. I have used the Ultra-Dot match dot Matchdot (a favorite among bullseye shooters) on my hunting revolvers. It will come down to a choice between the reflex style or the tube style sight. I do recommend staying away from mounting a scope on a handgun. I find the red dots a much better option. I also recommend staying away from the low end red dots. I still believe in the old saying "You get what you pay for". Let us know what you decide.

 

[milespb]

Cirrus, If you are going to use something on a Weaver style base I would definitly use Jack Weigands mount. I've used several of them for years and never had a problem with them.

 

[TSQUARED]

I'd like to know what my options are for optics on my 627PC and what I need. Looking at the gun, it looks like the top strap is already drilled and tapped and all I need to do is remove the one screw that holds the rear sight. I'm assuming I need a base, probably a Weaver style? I'm thinking probably a red dot, reflex sight without magnification.

Does anyone have a setup like this or any other additional info for me? I'd like to use the gun for hog hunting and maybe even a secondary carry for deer season if the right opportunity arose. Any help is appreciated.

Youi have several options:
1) Weaver style base ca $10 and mount either a tube style red ot (Tasco Pro Point, Leupold-Gilmore, Ultradot, etc) or a Docter, J-Point, C-More STS reflex red dot sight in SWeaver mount. Red dot is significantly above the barrel.
2) Get a custom mount from either Apex or a member on Brian Enos forum and mount the C-More railway sight. The red dot is closer to the barrel.
3) Use the J-Point mount which replaces the rear sight and install, either a J-Point or get the similar custom BME mount for the Docter reflex sight. About as light as one can get and close to the bore.

 

[Cirrus]

I like the low mount of the J Point. But I can't figure out how the mount works. Do you completely remove the factory rear sight? If so, the mount they show for the S&W revolvers doesnt look like it will fit my gun.

Scopes are almost certainly out. With a .357, I wouldn't be comfortable taking a shot over 30 yards anyway. So a reflex sight seems the better option.

 

[Cirrus]

Okay, I just figured out that the photo shown on the JPoint page for the S&W revolver mount isn't the actual mount. I found photos showing the revolver mount that has the little "finger" that fits that the S&W factory sight relief.

Next question is a two-parter. I saw where the JPoint mounts have an adapter for the Docter sight. I've read that the Docter sight is a little higher quality and uses a glass lens. Is it worth the money to go with the Docter over the JPoint? Second question is that CDNN has the Docter Sight II Plus 3.5MOA for $239. That is a little cheaper than the JPoint. Should I go with the Docter instead and use the JPoint S&W revolver mount with the Docter adapter?

 

[scooter123]

The Doctor sight will have a better optical quality. J Point chose to use an acrylic lens to minimize the weight and as a result the optical quality isn't perfect, however it certainly is good enough to work well as a sight. Another plus for the J Point is that it's the only reflex I've found that has a sight notch molded into the case, which means that you can use it co-witness but doing this will require you do some testing to determine how much "kentucky windage" to apply unless a taller custom front sight is installed.

If you can actually find that Doctor sight in stock and don't think you need a co-witness capability, I'd recomend you go with the Doctor for it's better optical quality. To be totally honest, many may find the optical clarity of the J Point a bit disappointing because in a backlit setting there is a bit of hazing present in the image. It's not enough to effect it's function as a sight but there is enough that it would drive a perfectionist raving nuts.

Now, one big plus I can report for the J Point is that once you have it properly zeroed you won't ever have to touch it again. I run at least 1000 rounds downrange each with my 620 and my 610 and the sighting hasn't moved at all. In addition the sight mounts with tight fitting pins at each corner and replacing the battery won't cause the sighting to shift by any amount I've been able to detect. BTW, those pins are tight enough that it basically a snap fit and you MUST start with the sight level on all 4 pins, if you try setting 2 pins and then proceeding to the other two you will need a hammer to get it to snap onto the pins. Start with the sight level on top of the pins and press firmly with both thumbs at the same time and it'll snap onto the pins. I'll also note that the mount ships with a 1 degree angular shim and you'll have to experiment to determine if it's needed. You will also want to take note of the warning to NOT try and force either the elevation or windage screw, if you find these adjustments getting "tight" STOP and install that wedge shim. You'll find you have plenty of adjustment for the windage, however depending on the gun and caliber you may need that wedge shim to tip the sight up or down. My 610 needed zero wedge, the 620 is at the elevation limit with 130 gn. 38 spl. but near center with the elevation with 158 gn. 357 Magnum so I have used the wedge, and my 617 shot way low without the wedge so I used the wedge to tip the sight down by 1 degree.

 

[Cirrus]

I ended up purchasing the 3.5 MOA Docter sight today as well as the J Point mount for S&W revolvers as the adapter to use the J Point mount with a Docter sight. I'm hoping that this works out. It's kind of a leap of faith. I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Cirrus]

Just got my Docter sight in and mounted using the JPoint mount for S&W revolvers. Looks super slick! The adapter for the Docter sight worked really well also.

Plan on taking it out this weekend and getting it sighted in. It's extremely fast sight acquisition. Very bright and very clear. I will try to get some photos soon.

 

[scooter123]

Just one warning. I don't know the total range of adjustment built into the Doctor but it's possible you may find yourself at the limit for the elevation adjustment. If so use that wedge shim that I expect J Point shipped with the mount and remember it's pretty easy to get confused and install it backwards, at least it was for me.

I would also suggest a "staged" approach to do the initial sighting in. Start out at about 30 feet and get it well zeroed and then slowly walk the sight back. Personally, I like to sight mine in at 35 yards, it results in shooting perhaps 3/4 inch high at around 50-60 feet but puts you within an inch or so at 50 yards with most calibers.

 

[Cirrus]

Thanks for the tip! I will keep that in mind.

 

[Cirrus]

Quick question, when would the shim be needed? To move the POI up or to move it down?

 

[scooter123]

IMO the wedge is needed to correct for the limited range of adjustment available on most reflex sights. As for why, it's because of the Bore Transit Recoil of the particular caliber. On my 6 inch 617 that has almost no muzzle flip I had to use the shim to tip the front of the sight UP slightly in order to zero it. On my 6 1/2 inch 610 no shim was needed at all. On my model 620 I am at my limit for the elevation when shooting 130 gn. 38 spl., but with a 158 gn. +P the elevation is near center and finally with a 158 gn. 357 Magnum the elevation has to be set near the opposite end of it's adjustment. Basically, with what I normally shoot I didn't need the shim on the 620 but if I were to load it with a 180 gn. hunting load I'd need that shim.

NOW ONE FINAL WARNING ABOUT THE J POINT MOUNT. If you read the instructions they will tell you that the rear screw for the mount MUST BE SHORTENED. Pat attention to that warning because this screw is recessed much deeper in the mount and it WILL hit the cylinder if you neglect to shorten it. I would suggest that you remove the cylinder when you first attach the mount and snug up the rear screw and look to see how much you have to shorten it. Then I would suggest you use a sanding drum on a Dremel to do the work, if you try and use a bench grinder it's likely you'll launch that tiny screw into some hidden dimension. Once that screw is sitting flush with the underside of the top strap you can go ahead and mount the cylinder and finish mounting the sight. BTW, a tiny dab of blue locktite is also a good idea to insure the mount doesn't shoot loose under fire. If you want to remove the mount in the future, pull the grips and put the gun into a 140 degree oven to heat up and that locktite will break loose with very little effort.

 

[Cirrus]

I didn't have any users with the rear most screw. I've got it tightened and it doesn't protrude through the bottom of the top strap. Cylinder rotates freely and nothing is scraping it.

 

[scooter123]

J Point must have realized the potential for problems and found a source for a shorter screw in the rear mounting hole. When I installed J Point reflex sights on my 610, 617, & 620 this was not the case and I had to shorten the rear screw for every mount.

Let me know how you like that Doctor once you've used it a bit, I have a new 625JM that I'm considering trying the Doctor with. I really shouldn't because I'm becoming a bit to dependent on optics and I purchased the 625 for IDPA but the indoor ranges near my house don't have very good lighting in the booths and it is nice to shoot a decent grouping at times, which isn't possible when you can't even see the rear sight blade.

 

[Cirrus]

Just shot my 627 PC with the Docter sight this weekend and I'm in love with it. The JPoint mount and Docter adapter worked great and they look great. The Docter is very clear and precise. It was very easy to sight in. I'm dead money with that thing on my gun. I'm probably going to put one on some of my other guns. So far, I couldn't be more happy with the sight.

 

[Cirrus]

Here are some photos of my 627 Performance Center with the new Docter sight added. I used the J Point mount that fits the factory S&W rear sight and used the J Point adapter shim to mate the Docter sight with the J Point mount. I'm very pleased wit this sight. Very bright, very crisp, and very clear. It was easy to mount and get sighted in. It's so accurate that it's almost unfair....almost! Don't pay attention to the Goodyear grips. I've got the gun set up to run full house .357 loads for hunting this fall and the rubbers definitely help with the recoil.