Help with stocks

[DCWilson]

I am pretty ignorant of S&W top break revolvers. Is it the case that stocks from round-butt top breaks would fit early RB hand ejector models?

I'm trying to identify these stocks, which came mounted on an early M&P, S/N 43786 (1902/First Change, shipped 1904).

The inside surface of the right panel bears the impressed number 9607.

My M&P would probably have shipped with hard rubber on it. There are dished checkered square butt stocks known to have been used on K-frames in the 1904-1910 era, but I can't find any dished RB stocks. I am wondering if these could have migrated on from a double action or safety hammerless. My initial thought, with an eye to the impressed numbers, was that these came from an earlier M&P, either a .38 HE First Model, or a slightly later .32 WCF (which used different serial number sequences). But I am told that at this time serial numbers appear in pencil, and are not punched into the wood.

Did the large-bore top breaks have larger handles analogous to the distinction between the later K and N frames? Or were grip dimensions and stocks standardized for the top breaks regardless of caliber?

Thanks for any education anyone can offer.

 

[opoefc]

This type of wood stocks were available on the NM# 3 .44DA and early M&P K frames. I suspect your pair were on a .44DA originally, based on the serial number. There is a slight differnce in the size of the grip frames for the NM#3 .44DA and the M&P, but I have found that with wood grips the fit is pretty close for a pair to fit either gun. Ed.

 

[cgt4570]

While Ed might be correct, .44 DA's typically have slightly sharper corners than your grips show. Also, the locating pin hole is in a different spot. I think that serial number is MUCH too low for a late-shipped .44DA
You don't show the bottom inside, but I would bet that they came from an early K frame 1902 in .32-20. That serial would be correct for the proper era of those grips. .32-20s were serial'd in a seperate range and were much slower sellers than their .38 Special counterparts.

Yes, .44DA and K round butt grips are very close with K's being just slightly smaller and a bit more rounded on the lower corners. The only top breaks that truely interchange with hand ejectors are .38DAs (and SAs) which fit I frames (and very early J frames) perfectly.

 

[DCWilson]

Thank you both for your comments.

Chris, the .32-20 idea was the one that I favored when I took the stocks off and saw the different number. But dished tops on round butt stocks are apparently not seen in this time frame. The locating pin hole is perfect for the gun I removed them from (1902/First), so I presume they would fit exactly on the identical .32-20 frame (Second Model, 1902). Additionally, I am told that stock numbering did not involve punches at this time; numbers were written in pencil.

So the signals are mixed. If the locating pins on top-break frames were in a different position, then these stocks would appear NOT to be from anything other than a K-frame hand ejector. In that case the challenge is explain the anomalies of the numbering technique and the dished non-medallion tops.

 

[handejector]

D,
You are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

I thought you caught it when I said that walnut was always an option on the M&P's, even in the era when black hard rubber was the grip normally seen.
Yes, the dished top is normal for the early M&P years.
EVERYTHING is normal about those grips for an early M&P up to about 1909-10 ordered with walnut.
The only thing I question is the number.
I have not seen one in that era stamped.
I have never seen a stamped number with that orientation- level across the top, when it is correct for them to be stamped. In eras when numbers WERE stamped, they were parallel with the vertical axis (kinda). Very late stamped numbers were level across the bottom edge.

Last, IF for some reason the factory had stamped a number on that pair of grips, the font on number stamps in the early 1900's was much different from those digits. They were more ornate and stylized- LOOK at the numbers stamped on your gun for example. The digits on those grips are blocky and plain.

Bottom line- I think those are normal walnut M&P grips for the era- with a phonied up number stamped later. JMO. Someone probably did not see the pencil number if it was there, or they were possibly unnumbered, and stamped them to match a gun, not knowing any better.

Who knows? They could have been stamped in the 50's for a rebuild or refinish job.......

 

[DCWilson]

Lee, thanks for the clarification. I did indeed misunderstand the force of your original message, and my confusion was enhanced when I went looking for pictures of round butt dished stocks and could not find any in what I thought was the proper time frame.

 

[cgt4570]

David,

I guess I should have mentioned that I have two pair of those round butt concave K grips in my stash. Yes, they were definitely availabe on round butt guns in place of hard rubber. I think I've succeeded in amassing at least one of every standard K or N grip type grip offered in walnut pre-war. It's rumored (and I think Mike Priwer might have a set) that a few K round butt target grips were made very early in the Bekeart style. I don't have any of those, but hope to make a pair from scratch some day.