Hinged Maroon .22/32 Kit Gun Box (PIX ADDED)

[DCWilson]

Edited 6/1/09 to add pictures in downthread post.

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I put another pre-war .22/32 Kit Gun into California's 10-day Gunbuyer Patience Development Program this afternoon. I will resist the temptation to say much about it here until I have the opportunity to bring it home and take some photos.

The gun, which was shipped in March 1938, comes with a maroon, bottom-hinged box with the serial number in pencil on the bottom and the proper printed Kit Gun label pasted on the end. There are also the handwritten initials RB-W, which I take as a feature code for Round Butt, Walnut. Somebody please correct me if I am off base.

In addition the bottom of the box bears the pencil notation "U.S.R.A" in a hand-drawn circle. Could this designate the front sight? This gun does not have the usual Patridge sight seen on pre-war Kit Guns, but rather a modified half-round blade with the back quarter-circle showing a reduced diameter that leaves a vertical face measuring about 1/16 of an inch right at the top of the blade. Sorry if that is confusing; there is probably a better way to describe the front sight blade that I can't think of right now.

There is also a three line rubber-stamped inscription that is probably an address. I may be able to read it with contrast enhancement processing once I take photos.

The box is pretty rough, with broken corners and one entire end missing from the top half. What is the thinking in the collector community about box repair? Should I leave it alone or take some conservation and restoration steps?

David Wilson

 

[opoefc]

David, If it was my box, I'd do whatever my skills would allow to restore the box. Replacing the missing end would be the hardest part, but not impossible. I might mention, that the gun is & C&R and if you have a C&R and a Calif. DOJ. Cert. of Eligibility, you don't have to do the 10 day wait in CA. I have no idea what rhe USRA is for, as it appears on your box's bottom. It is, of course, the initials of the United States Revolver Assoc., but I don't see a connection with a kit gun, as it's not a target revolver.

 

[29aholic]

David,
You mention it does not have the normal patridge type sight. Are you telling us it is an adjustable sight gun with an unusual front sight for such? If so, US Revolver Assn. could be a possibility.

Ed is right on the box. Apparently that red box is worth a BUNCH!!!

 

[DCWilson]

Ed and Curtis, thanks for the comments. I knew I should have posted pictures instead of just typing all those words.

Here's what the box looks like:

The good end, which is fortunately where the label is pasted:

The bad end, with the upper panel completely missing and the lower panel partially detached:

The interior, which shows that the box was originally intended for a .22/32 target model with a six inch barrel. The printed "6" was overwritten with a pencil "4" when the box was used it for the Kit Gun:

The bottom of the box, which shows the serial number of the revolver (530553) and markings I mentioned in my first post:

As to the front sight, yes it is a non-standard front blade accompanying the standard adjustable rear sight. You can see an example in the photo in the first post of this thread.

Here is another picture that Mike Priwer posted in another thread to illustrate this type of sight (This is NOT my gun!):

In different posts Mike has referred to this as a NRA sight, or "step-out" sight.

As to the C&R license and COE, I plan to pick those up later this year. I know it is possible to avoid California's 10-day hold. I just haven't got around to it yet.

David Wilson

 

[29aholic]

David,
I stand behind my original post...letter that gun.

As it is a 22/32 target and not a Beakhart (?) I would say it is a good possibility it did go to the USRA or a member there of. It is times like this that the beginning of the trail gets REALLY interesting.

If you look for the thread on "A bargain hope someone got it" something like that, bettis1 talks of seeing a pre-war box at the SWCA meeting one year that someone gladly gave $1000 for.

 

[DCWilson]

Yes, this gun and my other Pre-War Kit Gun will definitely be lettered. My collection is not that large, and my policy is to letter everything that is Pre-WWII and most Post-War guns up to the model number introduction in 1957.

I confess to paying a bundle for this particular package, and the box was part of what made me go that high. Uncommon gun, enviable condition, and a box as well -- what's not to like?

 

[29aholic]

We cant wait to see yours...keep us updated

 

[opoefc]

David, You might want to get in touch with Joe Miller. He was, and maybe still is, the long time secretary of the USRA and has all the records of their matches & might have some info onsomeone shooting a 4 in. Target model Kit gun. Joe's email is s&[email protected] Ed.

 

[wayne.byram]

Re;kit gun sight
That is a United States Revolver Assoc.sight.As far as I know it was a regular catalog option.
Wayne Byram

 

[jondar]

Quote: "Seeing a Pre War box that someone gladly gave $1000 for."

I'm astounded. Was that a box for a Kit Gun or are all Pre War boxes going for large sums of money?

 

[DCWilson]

Originally posted by jondar:
Quote: "Seeing a Pre War box that someone gladly gave $1000 for."

I'm astounded. Was that a box for a Kit Gun or are all Pre War boxes going for large sums of money?

I think that $1000 box was for a Registered Magnum, and I bet it was in near pristine condition. In general, older boxes are extremely valuable, and you can see them on Gunbroker or Ebay frequently for several hundred dollars. I need an age-appropriate box for a 1933 era .38/44 Outdoorsman, but the only ones I have seen are in the $500 range. So far I haven't taken the bait because I'd rather spend that money on a gun. Maybe if I had a mint condition prewar gun whose collectible status would benefit from a box, I would consider paying a stiff price to get it.

I'm just guessing, but I imagine the beat up Kit Gun box I show above would be worth $250-300 by itself. There is a certain market for those hinged maroon display boxes, which were in use for several different revolver models (mostly I and K frames, I think) from the late '20s through the mid-late '30s. The 1930s blue picture boxes that contained N-frame revolvers are also highly desirable.

DW

 

[jondar]

D. C. Wilson,

Thanks for this advice. I knew that a gun in the original box will bring somewhat more than without but had no idea how prices have exploded. I have a Smith & Wesson M&P shipped December, 1941 to the dept. who distributed them to various agencies. I have the proper box for it, have been thinking about selling it in the box and would have thought $350 would have been a good price for the pair. (Beats head on table). So I appreciate your info. Jon

 

[DCWilson]

Jon, I'd say 900 to a thou for the gun and box, if both are in good condition, would be closer to reality. There is a 1937 M&P about 95% with a good hinged maroon box in San Diego (but not certifiably the original box) that has been on a shelf at $1200 for over a year. So that's high. But I would bite if he ever came down about 20-30 percent.

If your gun and box are good but not really in peak shape, maybe $750-850 for the pair. I'm in California, so I think in terms of high prices.

David

 

[jondar]

David - I'd say your second paragraph description above more or less describes both gun and box. The gun was described as Good-VG by the seller when I bought it and I had no idea it came with the box. The box does have some dings on the back, tiny tears where the underpaper shows, and a small old repair on one corner. The pencilled number does not agree with the matching numbers on the gun, but is in the proper range for that shipping date. Thanks again for the info. Jon

 

[mikepriwer]

I have two or three guns with this stepped front sight. .38 M&P target 648xxx
is described as :

"the invoice lists as round front sight with step out in top"

This was in Aug of 1934. I'll have to find the other letter, and see how that
front sight is described.

Later, Mike Priwer