brasspoint
Member
I recently purchased a Recon 45 and other than performance I cant find any production or history on this model
So any info would be appreciated
So any info would be appreciated
history on the Performance Center Recon 45
- Thread starter brasspoint
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Richard McMillan
Member
4513 Recon .45, Serial Number REC0595, Performance Center RECON, Product Code 170141, Extra Magazine (Marked Performance Center 45 ACP), 1999 Special for RSR.
Developed from the Model 4513 with a 4-1/4 inch stainless steel barrel. Serial numbers start at REC0001, A total of 603 units produced in 1998-99. The .45 Recon was available in two different configurations stainless slide / silver alloy frame and blued slide/blue alloy frame. The first run of these had a ported barrel, I have read the second run did not have the ported barrel but have not verified. My gun is Ported.
Developed from the Model 4513 with a 4-1/4 inch stainless steel barrel. Serial numbers start at REC0001, A total of 603 units produced in 1998-99. The .45 Recon was available in two different configurations stainless slide / silver alloy frame and blued slide/blue alloy frame. The first run of these had a ported barrel, I have read the second run did not have the ported barrel but have not verified. My gun is Ported.
OP
brasspoint
Member
my model is black and black and has the ported barrel
REC003x excellent firearm
low production number, could be good or bad?
thank you,
REC003x excellent firearm
low production number, could be good or bad?
thank you,
The only thing I can add is that the Recon was built with a slide mounted Decocker as opposed to the traditional S&W slide mounted safety
I have never heard of a Factory Recon shipping without the ported barrel, however I do know of someone that changed their barrel out for the standard one.
I have never heard of a Factory Recon shipping without the ported barrel, however I do know of someone that changed their barrel out for the standard one.
How would you folks compare the single action trigger break on a Performance Center da/sa such as this Recon 45 with the single action trigger break up against a single action target Performance Center pistols such as a 952 or 845?
Close? Just as good? Nowhere near?
Close? Just as good? Nowhere near?
DA/SA triggers (no matter how good they are) will never equal a SAO trigger on a high end Target gun.
Remember the RECON is built as a carry gun while the 845s and 952s are strictly target pistols. There is no intent to make the triggers similar, they are for different jobs
The 845 trigger is superb. The 952 is excelent
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In the very same way, please consider the close fit of that absolutely supreme Briley titanium spherical bushing that the full target only 952 & 845 run... And see that the 45 Recon has it as well.
But it was intended for use as a combat/carry gun?
Really don't believe my question is out of line here.
But it was intended for use as a combat/carry gun?
Really don't believe my question is out of line here.
03Fatboy
Member
I did hear a recent report here on the boards, that a PC Shorty 40 (w/b/riley bushing) which is also a carry gun didn't fire anymore accurately than a production 4013TSW. My 4013TSW shoots very well and suspect my recently acquired Shorty 40 isn't anymore accurate or maybe a tad, but will see when I get it to the range. I doubt I will be able to tell any significant difference between the two.
Well, more times than I can count it seems standard fare for folks, especially in casual conversation on gun forums to simply say that a gun is extremely accurate or my favorite "...it's more accurate than I am..."
I disagree, very much so. And I don't believe the folks who say that give themselves and their own abilities enough credit.
When I am on an indoor range (where distance and light are absolutely static), paper targets simply don't lie. I much prefer shooting outdoors for a myriad of reasons but if I want to know what one of my handguns has the ability to do, it's paper at 12 yards.
If someone has a 5906 or 4506 and they love it to death, I totally understand and I know where they are coming from! However, if they believe they couldn't see the difference in their own shooting if a 952 or 845 were substituted for their favorite high production service gun...
well, my optimistic take is that a whole new world of passionate discovery awaits them!
And without reserve, I beleive I am right and it would be great pleasure to see their face when they discover the same thing.
I disagree, very much so. And I don't believe the folks who say that give themselves and their own abilities enough credit.
When I am on an indoor range (where distance and light are absolutely static), paper targets simply don't lie. I much prefer shooting outdoors for a myriad of reasons but if I want to know what one of my handguns has the ability to do, it's paper at 12 yards.
If someone has a 5906 or 4506 and they love it to death, I totally understand and I know where they are coming from! However, if they believe they couldn't see the difference in their own shooting if a 952 or 845 were substituted for their favorite high production service gun...
well, my optimistic take is that a whole new world of passionate discovery awaits them!
And without reserve, I beleive I am right and it would be great pleasure to see their face when they discover the same thing.
vigil617
US Veteran
Richard, I think this is the first time I've seen a production number on the 45 Recon. Did you get it in a Jinks letter? Interesting stuff; thanks for sharing.
OP
brasspoint
Member
I agree, search everywhere for a production number and no luck.
How did you find that needle in that hay stack?
Thanks and it answered what I was searching for.
My S&W book only provides year and production code.
Does anyone know serial number range on a Recon 45 that came with the matching knife or a picture of the knife?
florange
Member
Hi: I have a letter from Roy on my RECON 45. Roy states, "The serial numbers of these pistols were in a separate series beginning at REC0001. From 1998 to 1999 the Performance Center has manufactured 603 units of this model."
Hope that this helps.
Kurt
Ascension
Member
Well, more times than I can count it seems standard fare for folks, especially in casual conversation on gun forums to simply say that a gun is extremely accurate or my favorite "...it's more accurate than I am..."
I disagree, very much so. And I don't believe the folks who say that give themselves and their own abilities enough credit.
When I am on an indoor range (where distance and light are absolutely static), paper targets simply don't lie. I much prefer shooting outdoors for a myriad of reasons but if I want to know what one of my handguns has the ability to do, it's paper at 12 yards.
If someone has a 5906 or 4506 and they love it to death, I totally understand and I know where they are coming from! However, if they believe they couldn't see the difference in their own shooting if a 952 or 845 were substituted for their favorite high production service gun...
well, my optimistic take is that a whole new world of passionate discovery awaits them!
Not so sure about that. A few weeks back I picked up a nice MK III Performance center Shorty .40 to add to my 3rd gen collection. I was to be a companion carry piece to my old holster worn 6904. The PC Shorty is tight, precise and a really nice piece no doubt. However on the range it groups no better than the production 6904 I own and maybe not as well. That is the consistent opinion of both myself and several others who have shot them both back to back punching paper on an indoor range.
The pair
Maybe I just have a really good 6904 but if I was in a SHTF situation and had to trust my life to only one pistol it would be the 6904 not the PC shorty. Reason being is reliability in a combat situation and the loser tolerances of the 6904 would make it more forgiving.
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Ascension
Member
That's the 1st Recon .40 I have seen and it's a knock out!!!
Tough call -- and I absolutely believe what you're saying. My experience has been different... I have eight different S&W pistols from the 1/2/3rd Gen line and I really love every one of them, but I have never -- ever -- NOT EVER even come close to punching the kind of groups I can punch every single time with my 845.
The seven others range from "boy I wish I could do a bit better" to "I would feel guilty if I asked this to do better!" but with the 845, I almost need to pull out a mirror to confirm -WHO- is operating the pistol.
vigil617
US Veteran
Since this isn't quite a zombie thread yet.....
It's interesting to me that the SCSW mentions that two of the three product numbers (170098 for the black finish and 170041 for the stainless finish) for the 45 Recon were produced for RSR (a large Stocking Dealer), but RSR isn't mentioned with the third product number (170028).
That third number is the one specified to have come with the matching knife numbered to the gun.
The SCSW also mentions the nice aluminum double-lock Performance Center case, and some of the guns were shipped that way; others were in PC-marked plastic cases.
I've looked at photos of a couple of dozen 45 Recons, and it appears their serial numbers fall into two groups: the all-black ones start at REC0000 and go at least as far as 0309, and the all-stainless start as low as 0416 and go as high as 0596. This leads me to think that perhaps half of the run of 603 was black, and half stainless -- but that's a guess.
What's interesting about the ones that come with the knives (which are black) is that they were available with both the black- and the stainless-finish guns. Pictured below are the black 0283 with its knife, and the stainless 0460 with its knife. So it appears the PC marked a certain number of knives for both models, and those sets became product number 170028, and the remaining pistols were sold without the knives.
Long story short, it'll probably be difficult, short of a Jinks letter (and maybe not even then), to determine the number of units of 170028 -- 45 Recon models that came with the knives.
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florange
Member
The letter on my Recon .45 from Roy Jinks in 2011 states:
"In 1998 the Performance Center at the request of our wholesaler RSR Wholesale developed a variation of the Model 4513 called the RECON .45. This pistol was similar to the Model 4513 except it featured a ported 4.235 inch stainless steel barrel and was built in the Performance Center. The serial numbers of these pistols were in a separate series beginning at REC0001. From 1998 to 1999 the Performance Center has manufactured 603 units of this model."
Hope this helps along with what other members have posted on the production.
vigil617
US Veteran
I've not tried it myself, as I haven't owned any RSR-distributed Performance Center or production pistols, but in reading previous posts here on the Forum, it appears some members have contacted RSR in the past to try to obtain information about their own guns. I don't know if they've been successful, but if so, and anyone received any further documentation about the 45 Recon series, it would be great to see it posted here.
As an aside: I'd never really noticed it before, and other folks are probably already very aware of this, but the 45 Recons (for RSR) and the 45 CQB's (Lew Horton's specials) were two completely different sized pistols.
As florange's Jinks letter states, the 45 Recon was a variation on the 4513-sized Shorty 45 (which was a Lew Horton's special), on the same size frame but with a longer barrel by 1/2".
The 45 CQB's for Lew Horton's were a variation on the 4566-sized production guns, with full-sized grips that are longer than the 4513's, but with barrels a 1/4" shorter than the 4566's. Essentially, a short-slide version of those.
Yeah, this is old news to many of you, but just something that I had never really thought about before, since both the 45 Recon and 45 CQBs came along at the same time from the Performance Center for the two different distributors, and I had just never taken the time to really pay close enough attention to the differences. I do really like the fact that both models had the slide-mounted decocker-only feature.
(Did you know that the decocker-only option for the slide-mounted lever was designed to prevent a pistol from being placed into safe mode during the racking procedure? This apparently was one of the knocks on the decocker/safety arrangement, since grabbing the end of the slide to rack it could easily cause the lever to be pushed into the down (safe) position, and the shooter might not have been aware the pistol had thus been rendered that way. The decocker prevented that, of course, because after being activated, it would spring back into the fire position on its own, and the pistol would be ready to fire. I didn't know that until I read the Wiley Clapp article about the 45 CQB recently......)
OK, as you were, then.
As an aside: I'd never really noticed it before, and other folks are probably already very aware of this, but the 45 Recons (for RSR) and the 45 CQB's (Lew Horton's specials) were two completely different sized pistols.
As florange's Jinks letter states, the 45 Recon was a variation on the 4513-sized Shorty 45 (which was a Lew Horton's special), on the same size frame but with a longer barrel by 1/2".
The 45 CQB's for Lew Horton's were a variation on the 4566-sized production guns, with full-sized grips that are longer than the 4513's, but with barrels a 1/4" shorter than the 4566's. Essentially, a short-slide version of those.
Yeah, this is old news to many of you, but just something that I had never really thought about before, since both the 45 Recon and 45 CQBs came along at the same time from the Performance Center for the two different distributors, and I had just never taken the time to really pay close enough attention to the differences. I do really like the fact that both models had the slide-mounted decocker-only feature.
(Did you know that the decocker-only option for the slide-mounted lever was designed to prevent a pistol from being placed into safe mode during the racking procedure? This apparently was one of the knocks on the decocker/safety arrangement, since grabbing the end of the slide to rack it could easily cause the lever to be pushed into the down (safe) position, and the shooter might not have been aware the pistol had thus been rendered that way. The decocker prevented that, of course, because after being activated, it would spring back into the fire position on its own, and the pistol would be ready to fire. I didn't know that until I read the Wiley Clapp article about the 45 CQB recently......
)OK, as you were, then.
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