Hodgdon "WARNING" About 40S&W

[Sam Casey]

I was looking through my new 2016 copy of the Hodgdon Reloading Annual and see they warn against using their data when reloading 40S&W for guns that do not fully encase the round in chamber. First time I have seen such a warning, but don't buy their Annual every year. Anyone know what guns they are referring to? No such warning with 9mm, etc. Is it a serious concern and under what circumstance?

 

[twodog max]

Probably Glocks. Supposedly they do not completely support the base of the case. I have heard it argued both ways and I once had a 40 Glock and never saw any bulging.

 

[retired_diver]

Probably Glocks. Supposedly they do not completely support the base of the case. I have heard it argued both ways and I once had a 40 Glock and never saw any bulging.

i have a Glock 23 (40sw) Gen 2 it definitely has the bulging. Glock in their Gen 4 don't.

Here is a pic of how you can tell a Glock older gen It has the "smile" or bulge.

 

[venomballistics]

if that warning were any older, it'd be in the bible.
older Glocks played some dirty pool to enhance feeding.

 

[Rule3]

That warning has been around forever also in most manuals.

FYI the Browning HP in 40 SW will do the same thing.

 

[Engineer1911]

All of my 9 MM and 40 S&W range pickup brass was fired in Glocks. I have not had a problem reloading this bulged Glock brass with RCBS carbide sizer die. I do not use max powder charges, do not own a Glock, and have 1911 style semi-autos.

Yes, I'm a dinosaur, and a cheap one.

 

[Rick_A]

That warning has been around forever also in most manuals.

FYI the Browning HP in 40 SW will do the same thing.

Never seen a bulged case out of our HP 40.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I agree with everything Engineer 1911 said!!

 

[Rule3]

Never seen a bulged case out of our HP 40.

Take out the barrel, drop a round in it. See if it is fully supported. May depend on the year it was made? I am not 100%, also could be the load?

 

[rwsmith]

This has been known....

This has been known for years but I guess nobody bothered to put it in their manuals. I'm sure there are plenty of the older pistols around.

 

[Road_Clam]

I'm wondering if this "Glock Bulge" is just another isolated internet hype scare. I've fired and reloaded about 1K or rounds through both my .40 S&W Gen III G22 and G35 without any "bulge" problems. Don't know where the "unsupported barrel" claim fear is stemming from. Here's a pic of both my Glock barrels :

 

[PzKfW5]

It is from the base of the barrel where the feed ramp meets the chamber. So you have your picture exactly the wrong way to show it.

 

[BigMuddy]

That warning has been in the Hodgdon Annual Manual as long as I have been buying them, which has been several years now.

Dan

 

[Preacher Skip]

If you have a firearm with an unsupported chamber, use the slowest powder possible for the weight bullet and you will never have a problem. It is when you use fast powders with heavy bullets that problems occur. Remember though, this problem showed up in Glock's with factory ammo, not reloads. It has also shown up in their older 9mm firearms.

Rule 3 is 100% correct too. There are a lot of famous firearms that are worse than Glocks, or, maybe as bad. I had a case blow out in a BHP in 40S&W!

 

[Rule3]

It is from the base of the barrel where the feed ramp meets the chamber. So you have your picture exactly the wrong way to show it.

Exactly, need a picture of the other side of the barrel where the feed ramp is.

I am no Glock expert but believe the GEN 1 and 2 where more of a problem, they may have tightened things up in the G 3.

But that is why Glocks are so reliable and feed properly even when dirty.

 

[Preacher Skip]

I'm wondering if this "Glock Bulge" is just another isolated internet hype scare. I've fired and reloaded about 1K or rounds through both my .40 S&W Gen III G22 and G35 without any "bulge" problems. Don't know where the "unsupported barrel" claim fear is stemming from. Here's a pic of both my Glock barrels :

No! It is not an Internet scare, it is real and, people that know about reloading know that it exists and load especially for this NOT TO HAPPEN.

 

[bigedp51]

I have a Glock 22 .40 and do not have any problems with bulged brass. The fix was to change the feed ramps and the case was made thicker in the base.

Below the Glock .40 barrels over time and their changes.

The only Glock bulge problem I have is the bulge in the back of the target board.

 

[Rule3]

^^^^ nice picture comparison, Sure can see the difference in the early 1998 barrel.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Yeah, Glocks for sure-- you can almost always tell the range brass that has been Glock fired-- I just don't bother with it as I have buckets full of the stuff. I will stick with my Sig 250C thank you.

 

[Road_Clam]

I have a Glock 22 .40 and do not have any problems with bulged brass. The fix was to change the feed ramps and the case was made thicker in the base.

Below the Glock .40 barrels over time and their changes.


The only Glock bulge problem I have is the bulge in the back of the target board.

Ok thanks for the clarification NOW I can see the validity of an issue with the older barrels. My Glocks were both 2012+.

 

[scooter123]

Feed ramp intrusion into the chamber isn't isolated to early Glocks. With barrel lengths shorter that 3.5 inches some intrusion can be essential to obtaining a reliable feed cycle and the 40 caliber Shield has started to gain a reputation for bulging case. A simple way to test for this with fired brass is to take some calipers, hold them about 3/16 inch above the base, and rotate the case while noting the measurements. If you find an "out of round" condition above about 0.015 inch you have a bulged case. You can also roll a case on a smooth table top and see how "smoothly" it rolls.

If you have a pistol that bulges your cases by 0.015 to 0.025 inch I believe that you would be safe reloading those cases up to 5 times. However, I don't think you should try and push that and you will obviously have to segregate those cases from those from other pistols. You will also want to purchase a 40 caliber Lee Factory Crimp Die and their Bulge Buster kit for this die. I also wouldn't advise reloading any cases with a bulge exceeding 0.025 inch. While brass is actually a lot tougher than some may think a 40 caliber case isn't so expensive that you need to reload every one you find or have.

I'll also note that my only experience with bulged 40 caliber cases are range brass picked up by mistake and I haven't had any problems after bulge busting those occasional cases. Note, rather than purchase the Lee kit I simple used a SHCS set on the case holder to push the case through my FCD. Not really too convenient but for 5 or 10 cases at a time useable. I'll also note that I like the 40 S&W and load it from rather mild with 950 FPS 180 grain plinkers to 165 grain hand stingers at 1150 fps.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Main reason I DO NOT like 40 Short and Weak.
All mine but one [ EAA witness Gold team]
have been converted to 357sig.
The ramps are different , due to the bottle neck case and the case was
beefed up at the base.

 

[g4g17]

MORE Internet BS! GLOCK RULES, too bad!

 

[F75gunslinger]

MORE Internet BS! GLOCK RULES, too bad!

Not internet BS. Did you even look at the post above with the pics ? It may not be an issue with current Glocks , but with earlier ones it certainly can be a problem . It isn't just a Glock problem as others have said, just that the Glocks seem to get more press about it because they're so popular .

 

[Road_Clam]

It isn't just a Glock problem as others have said, just that the Glocks seem to get more press about it because they're so popular .

Or because Glocks are so hated ? LOL

 

[medic15al]

MORE Internet BS! GLOCK RULES, too bad!

Not hardly. They are good pistols but nowhere near the elevated status shallow individuals emotionally attach themselves to.

The Gen II G-17 and 19s are the pistols that the company established their reliability record. Early Gen III 9mm as well. After the extractor/ejector/recoil spring cock-up they have pretty much dropped into the low-budget reliability range. And Brass to face is a flaw.

 

[Rule3]

Groo here
Main reason I DO NOT like 40 Short and Weak.
All mine but one [ EAA witness Gold team]
have been converted to 357sig.
The ramps are different , due to the bottle neck case and the case was
beefed up at the base.

That expression or statement is more internet nonsense. Yes it may be shorter than the 10mm from which it came, but it certainly is not weak, Sure you can load it weak, but it's strange how so many LE agencies use it.

 

[dannyabear]

That expression or statement is more internet nonsense. Yes it may be shorter than the 10mm from which it came, but it certainly is not weak, Sure you can load it weak, but it's strange how so many LE agencies use it.

Equally strange the FBI and others are going back to 9mm

 

[bigedp51]

Equally strange the FBI and others are going back to 9mm

The FBI is going back to the 9mm because there is a shortage of Elmor Kieth types with degrees in accounting.

I bought my 5 inch S&W .44 magnum from my son who doesn't reload and he prefers his Sig 228 9mm. He came home one weekend and we went out shooting. He wanted the .44 back after he shot some of my mild reloads.

 

[Preacher Skip]

I have a Glock 34, 17, 19, 26 two 42's and a Just Right Carbine that uses Glock 9mm magazines.
I'd rather have 17 (18 with one in the tube) ANYDAY than 6 of anything else for defensive situations.
That said, I also have a Golck 22 RTF Gen 3 that I have shot the snot out of, now son in law #2 has it and shoots it a lot. My loads are 180gr TC of HP over a charge of SR4756 or Longshot or HS-6. Nothing faster than that unless the bullet weight goes down or goes to lead bullets. Of course, then I change barrels too... ��