Holding my tongue at Gander Mtn

[ChadW]

I was in Gander Mountain today killing some after work. I was looking through the case and overheard a woman talking to the salesman. She was looking to trade in a .380 of some sort because (in her words) she felt it didn't have enough stopping power. I thought "good for her".. if she wanted to upgrade that's great.

She asked if 9mm had enough "stopping power". I was surprised when I heard the guy behind the counter reply with "eeeehhhhhhh yeah it's pretty good.. decent I guess". Now, I know all the caliber wars that go on.. and how the internet has convinced some people 9mm is crap. I don't shoot 9mm, but would feel just fine carrying one. Anyway that's off topic.

She then told him that she didn't want a .45 because she shot one and it kicked too much. She wanted a semi auto so I was thinking go with 9mm. I wandered off some more and came back to the counter a few minutes later. At this time she was filling out paper work. I looked over to see what the salesman hooked her up with.... A new Beretta Px4 .40S&W.

Now... I'm no expert, but I've always gotten feedback that the kick of a .40 is much sharper than a .45. I agree.. I feel my .45s are much softer and easier to handle than .40. I was surprised that he sent her home with a .40. (I say he sent her because she was essentially asking him to pick one for her).

I wanted to say something but felt it wasn't my place. I figured the salesman would be mad and the lady might not have appreciated some grease stained stranger coming up to her offering his advice. I kinda felt bad after the fact not having said anything.. I really feel she'll get home and not like her new .40. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Crazy K38]

you are dead on there, the .40 in a polymer frame handgun is snappy, REAL snappy and she would have been better off with the 9mm or a .45, I probably would have said something, maybe I would have looked like an ass but I wouldn't have let that undereducated salesman feed B/S to this poor woman,I am not saying you did just looking at it from a different perspective, you were being polite and minding your own buisiness, good on you, I am just a little more 'rough around the edges' than most I guess lol.

 

[RonJ]

That's why I sold my Sigma .40. The gun was decent enough. Totally reliable but with a not-so-great trigger. Very tough to control when double tapping and nasty when rapid firing. The sales guy did her wrong.

 

[Ogandydancer]

I am not sure whether I would have said anything or not. I however have shot a 45 in the 1911 platform and my now present daily carry is a Sig Sauer P229R in .40. I have not found them that much different. I do however think the polymer frame would be quite a bit snappier than an alloy frame.Then this is just MHO and it's worth just what you paid for it $00.00.

 

[writerinmo]

Less weight= more felt recoil, it's just simple physics. However... I carried the 1911 while in the military, and bought a couple of .40's because IMHO I figured the round to be better suited for what my concerns were.

Yes, it can be described as "snappy", but a lot of that can be managed by what ammo you fire. I shoot a lot of Federal Champion 180gr FMJ for target shooting, and have no problem with rapid fire and target reacquisition. For Home Defense, I have it loaded with Remington UMC JHP 180gr because they feed reliably and I have good results with them. I tried Magtech Guardian Golds JHP 155gr... and beside the blatant feeding problems, the recoil was way more than I wanted to deal with. It was much more difficult to maintain my grip on the pistol, and firing one handed was out of the question for more than one shot. Specs on the round are much higher then the Federal and the Remington for both muzzle velocity as well as energy. My wife had no problem shooting both the Federal and Remington, but had no desire to even attempt the Magtech after watching me shoot a magazine of it. My wrist actually hurt after about 30 rounds of it... so my two cents on the .40 would be to manage the 'snappy' recoil by finding an ammo that suited you. Of course it is like any pistol, the more you shoot it the more accustomed you get to it. I expect that when I go out shooting later on and my buddy and I swap guns, his Ruger 9mm is going to seem like shooting an airsoft to me, lol!

 

[M29since14]

There is no good way to enter that discussion. If the lady wanted to hear from you, she would have asked. You were smart to stay out of it.

I agree with you that a lightweight .40 can be pretty nasty, but that Beretta may suit her well if it feels good in her hand. The G27 and the M&P40c are very similar guns, but I can't tolerate a G27, whereas the M&P seems almost tame. Maybe she will get along OK with that Beretta.

 

[Jellybean]

...and how the internet has convinced some people 9mm is crap.

I know this isn't the main point of your post, but since you brought it up... And there was a thread about it in the CCW section that made the same statement.

It wasn't the internet that labeled the 9mm as crap, it was Jeff Cooper and all his loyal, though blind, followers. Cooper was biased against the 9mm and his "combat triangle" and competition guns "making major" let everyone know for a fact, his fact, that the 9mm was insufficient long before Al Gore even thought about inventing the internet.

He was also one of the first I knew of that bashed the .380 too.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
You can never tell what a Lady can and cannot shoot comfortable.
Years ago when I still had a squad of children at home and I was working a full time job and as many parttime jobs as I could get, one of my part timers was at a Gunshop. One day a little senior female citizen came in a taxi. She came to me and said she wanted a gun for home protection.
I inquired what did she have in mind. She said nothing in partcular but asked what I kept at home. I said a .45 auto pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun. She said "Thats what I want". I attempted to steer her to something smaller but she insisted. When she left in the taxi she had a Colt .45acp and a 18" Remington 870 12ga. The next day was Sunday and a day off. I took my squad to the range and behold there was the senior citizen firing her guns. and quite good also.
I always wondered what this Lady had been in her earlier life?
Jimmy

 

[GatorFarmer]

We don't know what .45 auto she'd tried before. It might have been one of the smaller 1911s or Glocks. It might also have not fit her hand. A decent sized .40 auto that fits a person's hand, loaded with the right ammo, might well work for them even if a .45 auto didn't. Some people also just get it into their head, and always have going back to WW2, that a .45 kicks like a mule. Perceived recoil often has a psychological as much as physical root for some.

People before Cooper had doubts about .32s, .38s, .380s, and what not. Before modern JHPs the 9mm was mostly known for driving holes.

I've been carrying a .357 Sig auto as of late, a different sort of "super" 9mm, so I don't really care all that much one way or another.

 

[oldman45]

My mother passed away at age 87 but three years prior to her passing, she was shooting a S&W 44 mag in her back yard at a fox. She loved that gun and after her passing, it has not been fired again. I do not know if she shot it any after the fox incident but she was pretty good with it.

 

[Miss Fire]

Oh my, asking the average clerk at Gander Mountain what a lady should buy is akin to asking a sanitation worker to pick out her shoes.
No offense to any sanitation workers here.

 

[m1gunner]

A good friend's 95 pound little old lady mom asked to shoot his 1911 one day. She emptied the mag and shot a better group than he did.

She said it shot good, but she liked her M-10 S&W better.

If she were alive today, she would be 115 years old. Some of our senior citizens really learned to shoot "back in the day".

 

[jkc]

I'd guess we all have a bit of scar tissue on bitten tongues, from overheard gunclerk "advice" to innocents and novices. I seldom intercede, but, awhile back, after hearing a pontificating "expert" at Sportsman's Warehouse heartily recommending an airweight J-frame to a petite female newbie, I intercepted her and her boyfriend in the aisle as we exited the store --- I piped up with, "Excuse me ... I overheard your conversation at the gun counter, and as a firearms instructor, can't help but tell you that the gun the clerk recommended is really suitable for experts, not novices. It has brutal, painful recoil, and will put you off firing it immediately, and you'll never learn to use it properly. Rent various guns before you buy one..." The young couple were surprised, and professedly thankful for the intervention. Hope it helped...

 

[BarbC]

A new Beretta Px4 .40S&W.

It looks pretty good to me.

Px4 Storm F

I don't look like anything but a mild-mannered soccer mom but if he had shown that gun to me, I would have been interested in it too (except for the safety, which I hate in a carry weapon).

 

[gunlovingirl]

At first I was thinking I would have butted in. Then again, I think it's the buyer's responsibility to decide which gun is best for him/her before handing over the cash. It's pretty much impossible to say what will work best for someone else. So many factors come into play. But I do wish her well with her new gun!

 

[gunlovingirl]

My mother passed away at age 87 but three years prior to her passing, she was shooting a S&W 44 mag in her back yard at a fox. She loved that gun and after her passing, it has not been fired again. I do not know if she shot it any after the fox incident but she was pretty good with it.

Were you lucky enough to inherit it?

 

[cmort666]

I would definitely prefer a Springfield MicroCompact in .45acp to a polymer .40 S&W gun.

.40 S&W recoil isn't heavier than that of the .45 so much as faster.

I've got a Glock 22 and it's a good gun, but with 180gr. Blazer TMJs, it's VERY hard to control the muzzle whip.

 

[Beemer-mark]

IMHO a .40 kicks a lot worse than a .45 acp (my favorite round). My daughter doesn't agree (and she's about 100 lbs lighter than me.) She loves her .40 and hates my .45. Everyone has there own threshold.