Home wiring issue UPDATE

[ACORN]

The other night an outlet in my MIL's room died. I tested the outlet with my tester and found I had a "hot/ground" on the outlet. I switched the outlet because there was signs of overheating. What would cause a "hot/ground" on a house built in the 70s that has not had any wiring work in 30+ years?
A couple of outlets I've replaced in the past have had the ground wire hooked backwards by either the previous owner or??

 

[444 Magnum]

A couple of outlets I replaced in the past have had the ground wire hooked backwards by either the previous owner or??

When you say ground wire, do you mean the white neutral wire?

If your house has a grounded system, the ground wire should be bare copper (I think this became code in 1972). I've never seen a ground wired hot, it would trip a breaker or blow a fuse immediately.

Wiring the hot (black) and neutral wires (white) backwards (on the wrong sides)-it should be black wire to gold screw, white wire to silver screw- will cause reverse polarity. If the outlet you replaced was wired correctly, but had reverse polarity, then an outlet further "upstream" is probably wired incorrectly.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, are you saying the ground (third contact) was hot? If so, might have been a fault in the receptacle itself and it finally failed. Is the receptacle over loaded? It'd be a pain, but doing a circuit test on all 3 wires back to the entrance panel might show something. If that's not the only item on the circuit, there might be a problem upstream. Also, are the wires you can see actual 14-2 cable? A previous FIL had a rec room wired by a previous owner who used lamp cord. Around the Korean war, it wasn't unusual for wiring to be to code where the inspector could see it, something less (far less?) than code beyond that. Really marginal in 1955, not later with larger loads. Come to think of it, does your wiring have an actual ground (bare as noted above) wire?

Good help is hard to find. Decades after our house was built, I occasionlly find where the electrician or his helper(s) didn't bother with the ground wire. Having wired several barns, I can understand occasional frustration, but really?

 

[mtgianni]

Was the ground wire showing voltage when it was connected to the outlet but not when it was disconnected? That is a good reason to get rid of the outlet.

 

[ACORN]

When you say ground wire, do you mean the white neutral wire?

The ground wire should be bare copper. I've never seen it wired hot, it would trip a breaker or blow a fuse.

Wiring the hot (black) and neutral wires (white) backwards (on the wrong sides-black wire to gold screw, white wire to silver screw) will cause reverse polarity. If the outlet you replaced was wired correctly, but had reverse polarity, then an outlet further "upstream" is probably wired incorrectly.

I'm referring to the green screw/bare wire. I've found a couple that were hooked counter clockwise.
The outlet I removed was wired white-silver, black-gold.
My plug in tester said hot/ground, the 2 outside lights lit, center dark. I didn't put a test light to it.
I'm thinking there must be a fault between this outlet and the panel.
Let the fun begin!

 

[ACORN]

Was the ground wire showing voltage when it was connected to the outlet but not when it was disconnected? That is a good reason to get rid of the outlet.

I replaced the outlet because it show some light scorching on the outside of the neutral side. Also the white wire inside was light brown instead of white until an inch or so back.

 

[444 Magnum]

I'm referring to the green screw/bare wire. I've found a couple that were hooked counter clockwise.

^^^ This won't cause problems-just harder to get the connection tight.

Did the hot/ground indication go away when you replaced the receptacle?

 

[ACORN]

^^^ This won't cause problems-just harder to get the connection tight.

Did the hot/ground indication go away when you replaced the receptacle?

Nope. Still show hot/ground.

 

[444 Magnum]

I'm thinking there must be a fault between this outlet and the panel.

Nope. Still show hot/ground.

I think you're right. The problem is further upstream.

In my area in the 1970's, electricians wired light fixtures from multiple rooms on the same circuit and the same with receptacles.

Today, one circuit per room- lights and receptacles.

I'm saying this because the problem is likely isolated to the receptacles only.

If your house receptacles were wired with 14 gauge wire (14-2 w/ ground), make sure the breaker is 15 amps and not 20 to avoid overload. If 12 gauge, then the 20 amp breaker is correct.

 

[LVSteve]

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky that we only have 115V in most of the house here in the US. Back in the UK it was 220/230V and the wiring standards and inspections were a bit tougher. The way the houses were thrown up in Vegas over the last 30 years, a UK electrical inspector would take one look and declare whole neighborhoods unsafe.

The home I'm in now demonstrates some "funnies" now and again. I've got a GFCI that trips for no reason I can work out (faulty?) and the light dimming when the load changes is much greater than the last house. I'm convinced the wiring to the whole street is iffy, as I'm sure the lights in my house have dipped in response to stuff at a neighbor's place.

 

[ACORN]

My former neighbor replaced all their major appliances multiple time until they had whole house a/c installed. The installer said the voltage to the house was low. Called the power company and their tech said all was OK.
Back to the a/c tech. He came back and said low voltage. They then called the power co. again who sent an engineer out an he came up with low voltage. They installed a new pole and transformer across the street and the problem went away. The engineer determined the company had IIRC 13 homes all fed off the one transformer.
His house was #13 ours was #12.
IDK what the normal number should be.

 

[NYlakesider]

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky that we only have 115V in most of the house here in the US. Back in the UK it was 220/230V and the wiring standards and inspections were a bit tougher. The way the houses were thrown up in Vegas over the last 30 years, a UK electrical inspector would take one look and declare whole neighborhoods unsafe.

The home I'm in now demonstrates some "funnies" now and again. I've got a GFCI that trips for no reason I can work out (faulty?) and the light dimming when the load changes is much greater than the last house. I'm convinced the wiring to the whole street is iffy, as I'm sure the lights in my house have dipped in response to stuff at a neighbor's place.

I had that same situation in the 1980s, our neighbor did a lot of wood work in his garage. Evey time the plainer came on lights
blinked in our living room.

A friend was a boss at a big electrical shop and he came over checked out a few things at both houses. Came back a couple nights later and cured the problem. Both the plainer and living room were on the same leg. He found a slightly loose ground at both houses and we never had a problem afterwards.

 

[LVSteve]

I had that same situation in the 1980s, our neighbor did a lot of wood work in his garage. Evey time the plainer came on lights
blinked in our living room.

A friend was a boss at a big electrical shop and he came over checked out a few things at both houses. Came back a couple nights later and cured the problem. Both the plainer and living room were on the same leg. He found a slightly loose ground at both houses and we never had a problem afterwards.

Loose grounds are a possibility along with the issue of getting a good "ground" in a desert.

 

[arjay]

It may be worth calling an electrician for this one. Too many houses have diy electrical work in them

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The home I'm in now demonstrates some "funnies" now and again. I've got a GFCI that trips for no reason I can work out (faulty?) and the light dimming when the load changes is much greater than the last house. I'm convinced the wiring to the whole street is iffy, as I'm sure the lights in my house have dipped in response to stuff at a neighbor's place.

Sounds most likely the Neutral Lug at the meter or main box is loose! [that can happen over time]

I have had GFI outlets pop on exterior walls, when the hot summer sun warms the wall to oven like temperatures. Goes for main breakers in the sun too. They need replaced at that point. Only 20 bucks for a GFI outlet, can be in the $250+ range on mains!

Ivan

 

[ACORN]

I may have found THE issue.
My wife informed me that an outlet in our bedroom hasn't worked for a year or so, but to my knowledge she never told me. They are all daisy chained together, and I believe the one my wife mentioned is the first outlet upstream from the one showing a hot/ground.
I pulled it out and here's what I found just as I found it other than pulling it out to see what was going on.
Notice the green corroded screws and wires and the cooked burnt neutral just lying there. Also the ground once again is hooked counter clockwise.
I'll know shortly if that's the only issue or if there's more.
BTW I am going to pigtail them all eventually as it seems to me to be a better method. From what I've read the main advantage of back stabbing and daisy chaining is speed. I'm DYIing it so speed isn't an issue. Safety is.

 

[444 Magnum]

I never use the back push in's on the receptacle. I've seen too many of them become loose as the spring wears and then you have a receptacle failure or short.

That receptacle looks like it's been wet. Any water issues?

I know you said you've been in the house 30 years, but this would probably be a good time to start checking each receptacle and wire them using the side screw. You may find other problems that are eminent.

I see a lot of electricians now using the Ideal push-in electrical connectors to join wires instead of the traditional wire nuts. I'm guilty of using them myself, but I wonder how long they will last. They are spring loaded just like the receptacles.

 

[oldbrownhat]

...I see a lot of electricians now using the Ideal push-in electrical connectors to join wires instead of the traditional wire nuts. I'm guilty of using them myself, but I wonder how long they will last. They are spring loaded just like the receptacles.

There's a discussion on the lever type on Toolguyd's website:

New Ideal Wago-Like Lever Wire Connectors

 

[ACORN]

I have Wagos ordered but they won't arrive until this weekend.
I used wirenuts and pigtails for now. Once I get the Wagos I intend to do all the outlets. This one included. As long as my knees hold out.
As far as moisture the roof was bad but we had a metal roof installed last year. Nice and dry now.
That's the only way I can see water got it. The wall in question is an interior wall with no water lines or vents anywhere near it.
PS replaced the outlet and wired with pigtails. No sparks! The three wire tester shows all good!
Thanks all for your help!

 

[LVSteve]

There's a discussion on the lever type on Toolguyd's website:

New Ideal Wago-Like Lever Wire Connectors

Interesting. Are they reusable?