Hope the Beretta M9A4 G was not a mistake

[BAM-BAM]

The radiused backstrap on commercial guns after about 2000 makes a big difference, might have started with the Elite or Elite II guns

Can't tell from the pictures if BB57's has the radius cut


1sailor's gun post #11 above shows the radius cut clearly.

Wilson Combat guns have the radius cut,ultra thin G-10 grips and short reach trigger........

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Guys, after reading on forums and mfg website , such as problems with chrome lining flaking off, rear sight pushed over to the right, and other quality control issues was reluctant to buy the Beretta but after going to the local gun store and looking at one closer didn't see any of the issues that was supposed to be issues.

A friend of mine bought an M9A4 and he loves it. Zero problems so far but I am guessing he has only fired 400 rounds or so in the last two years. I thought it was very accurate and easy to shoot. In a full sized, metal framed DA/SA I would still take the P226, personally.

I keep wondering who got paid off for the Army to adopt the SIG P320 - removable FCU and all. The pistol has an astoundingly tall bore axis and is much thicker than needed due to the removable FCU fitted inside the grip housing...

American Rifleman published the complete XM17 requirements many years ago and the P320 was the only entry that actually checked all the boxes. Bore axis height was not a criteria.

 

[LVSteve]

Wilson Combat guns have the radius cut,ultra thin G-10 grips and short reach trigger........

[clouseau voice\] Un bijou clue-ette there, mon ami.

 

[BAM-BAM]

[clouseau voice\] Un bijou clue-ette there, mon ami.

Back at you........ whatever you said!!!!!!!

 

[Miracle Man]

Bore axis height is in my experience over rated, as it comes with some sharp downsides that many of the low bore axis advocates are either unaware of or choose to ignore.

Striker fired pistols dominate when it comes to low bore axis heights as the lock work allows for a pistol to be designed with a lower bore axis than can be accommodated with most hammer fired pistols. But there is no free lunch.

The Glock 17 for example has a bore axis height of 1.26" which is great but it also places the hand so high that the index finger is above the trigger. Consequently, your trigger finger has to angle down to the trigger.

Individual shooters mileage will vary but for a lot of shooters a low alignment index (below 1.0, and 0.81 in the case of the Glock 17) has a negative impact on how well the pistol points.

Indeed

I've never felt comfortable shooting a Glock, it seems I'm fighting to find the front sight doing a giant figure eight constantly.

But I "grew up" with the 1911 and just don't feel right without a hammer.

The Beretta is a fine pistol.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

The only thing that bugged me when the Army switched to the Beretta M9 was that it was not an American company. However, considering the location in Accokeek, MD, I sort of had to ignore that fact, never mind that I have always loved Beretta's pistols and own a few.

Interestingly, with all of the controversy early on, in the early 1990s I spent a few weeks at CENTCOM and I enjoyed several pleasant afternoons at an indoor range a few minutes directly north of the base. One of the pistols I rented whilst shooting there was a Beretta M9 and wouldn't you know it?!?! ---- the slide cracked in the middle of my range session, and I mean cracked through and through. Before indicting the M9, however, one must remember that this range pistol had many, many thousands of rounds through it. Nevertheless, the controversy at the time seemed to have been justified in some small degree.

Notwithstanding that, however, this Italian version (92S) is one of my home defense guns. I just love big handguns for home defense and as a 3rd Gen S&W fan I love decockers so this 40 year old pistol always remains ready for things that go bump in the night. I don't even mind about the bottom of the grip magazine release because I really don't think a fifteen round gunfight is going to occur, even if I do keep a couple of extra magazines loaded!

 

[BAM-BAM]

VZ makes the best slim G-10 grips.... they make them for Wilson Combat w/ the WC logo!


Yoda you ought to grab an Mec-gar 18 rd mag for that..... I think they have both mag release cuts??????????

Edit: went and looked won't work in 92S's Sorry

 

[jeffrefrig]

I bought all 3 of these Berettas when they were imported from Italian Prison Systems and where ever else. The 92S is always at my ready when I'm downstairs by the workbench. (Workbench means a place where I listen to the radio and drink beer.) I couldn't find a pic of it by itself. I kinda like the stocks I bought for it. Since these pics I also got wood for the 1951.
Anyhow, the 92S is a heck of a reliable handgun. The sights aren't the best...like the 1911s. Never had a problem with it jamming or not going bang.

 

[bovw]

In my opinion the US military made a major error in procurement with the M9, given the large grip that doesn't fit small or even mid sized hands very well.

- To get enough leverage to use a DA trigger effectively, you need to be able to get the trigger finger on the trigger all the way up to the first joint.

- To grip a DA or DA/SA pistol properly, you need to be able to get enough trigger finger on the trigger, without rotating the hand around on the grip.

- To fully control a pistol, you also need to get your hand around it, at least enough to allow your thumb and middle finger to touch as you grip it. (You don't keep your thumb there when shooting, but it's a very reliable measure of fit to ensure you can wrap your fingers around it enough to properly grip it, and if the need arises better retain it.)

Many shooters who were issued M9s simply could not meet all three of those requirements. I fell in that category and while I could certainly shoot it well enough to qualify with it, I never came close to shooting it was well as a 1911, particularly in practical shooting at speed, and eventually I gave up and sold my personal 92 FS.

——

I recently acquired a Model 92 Compact L and tried a pair of the Hogue "thin" G10 grips. However even with the short reach trigger installed it wasn't quite enough. Better but not where it needed to be.

However I found the Wilson Combat "ultra thin" grips along with the short reach trigger did the trick. The Wilson Combat ultra thin grips have feathered edges and a very wasp waisted profile along with absolute minimum thickness over the grip screws.

With the Wilson grips on my 92 Compact L, it is still no where near as thin as the grip on the single stack 92 Compact Type M. But it's as thin as it gets with a double stack Model 92. The grips, in combination with the short reach trigger allow for a trigger reach sufficiently short enough to meet all the requirements above.

The Beretta 92X with its slightly thinner Vertec based frame and a set of ultra thin grips should also fit a much wider range of hand sizes, especially in combination with a short reach trigger.

Sounds like me. The Wilson short reach trigger and the ultra slim grips transforms it for me.

 

[LVSteve]

Bore axis height is in my experience over rated, as it comes with some sharp downsides that many of the low bore axis advocates are either unaware of or choose to ignore.

Striker fired pistols dominate when it comes to low bore axis heights as the lock work allows for a pistol to be designed with a lower bore axis than can be accommodated with most hammer fired pistols. But there is no free lunch.

The Glock 17 for example has a bore axis height of 1.26" which is great but it also places the hand so high that the index finger is above the trigger. Consequently, your trigger finger has to angle down to the trigger.

Individual shooters mileage will vary but for a lot of shooters a low alignment index (below 1.0, and 0.81 in the case of the Glock 17) has a negative impact on how well the pistol points.

One of the things I've always liked about the Browning Hi power and CZ-75, and 1911 is that they all fit my hand really well and point *exceptionally* well.

The Hi Power has a 1.53" bore height and a near perfect alignment index of 1.01. It points like an extension of your index finger. The CZ-75 has a bore height of 1.57" and a still impressive alignment index of .95.

The 1911 has a comparatively high bore axis height of 1.74" , and an alignment index of 1.11, but it still points so much better than a Glock that there is no comparison. When you add in the 1911's extremely short trigger reset, nothing double taps faster.

The Beretta 92 has an almost worst in class bore axis height of 1.8" (along with the Sig P320 and a near identical 1.78") but the alignment index is a still very impressive .97 (and .99 for the Sig P320). With the single stack Compact Type M, and now with a Compact L modified with short reach trigger and Wilson combat ultra thin grips, the Model 92 fits well and points exceptionally well.

I'm a little baffled. Your alignment index suggests that most people shoot low with the Glock. I thought the issue with the Glock was that people did not like rotating their hands forward to level the gun. That makes me think they would shoot high.

As for your trigger finger being above the trigger, that must be a Glock thing. I don't have that problem with a Steyr M9 because my whole hand is pointing downhill due to the grip angle.

I have a couple of striker fired guns with low bore axes that I have yet to shoot. Both have a more conventional grip angle, and experimentation with dry firing is making me think that the angle of the trigger at the break has a lot to do with shooting high or low than most will admit. I have a Kahr CW9, and with my long fingers and the break so far back, I have a tendency to shoot low with it. Funny old thing, there is a flat faced trigger kit where the break takes place with the trigger face almost vertical. Every reviewer says it fixes their "shoot low" issue.

Lot of moving parts in this shooting malarkey.

 

[BB57]

The radiused backstrap on commercial guns after about 2000 makes a big difference, might have started with the Elite or Elite II guns

Can't tell from the pictures if BB57's has the radius cut


1sailor's gun post #11 above shows the radius cut clearly.

Wilson Combat guns have the radius cut,ultra thin G-10 grips and short reach trigger........

The Compact L on the left dates from 2015. If you look at the top of the serrations right where they taper to points you'll see the step in the frame along side them where the radius cut is made.

 

[Claymore33]

I rarely carry a 9mm. I am a .45, .44spl, .41 fan. However I own a few 9mms. I was issued a Beretta M 92 in War zones during a military career that took me to 4 continents . I really disliked the M9. Grip too big, under Seal Team trials the slides cracked and worst of all slide can be lifted off the gun by criminal that is being held at gunpoint. The Sig P226 is a much better gun . I own multiple Sigs.

 

[Farmer17]

I always thought the Beretta M9 was cool looking and it was featured in many movies when it first came out and with the open slide at least it has a little style and doesn't look like every other generic gun you see now. I wear XL gloves but the grip is too big for me or I might buy one.

 

[78bagger]

The 92FS is a handful and more for me. I can shoot at the range but I don't think I'd want to attempt any violent physical activity while retaining my grip. I picked up a CZ75bd as a concession to the 9mm rage and, though heavy, it feels real nice in the hand.

 

[VaTom]

Always admired the Beretta M92 and wanted one. Came across a Model 92F with 2 magazines and factory walnut grips at a local auction in 2016 and was able to get it on a bid of $400. A 1985 model (same year of military adoption) made in Italy. (Before production began in Maryland)

What a well made pistol, action is smooth as silk with chrome lined barrel. Never had an issue. A lot of people feel it is too large for a 9mm but you have to keep in mind that when the military adopted it, there weren't as many high capacity pistols on the market. Glock was just then gaining popularity. For what it is a full size service pistol, it gets the job done.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Like most I think the M-9 is too big.
Today the Compact can be a 15+1 gun with Mec-gar flush fit mags (I use a factory 15rd mag base plate for CC)
or the Centurion a Compact upper matted to a full size frame (think Colt Commander) would be a better choice IMO.
Mec-gar and Beretta offer 18 and 17rd flush fit mags for the Centurion. Which is only .33" taller than the Compact. 5" vs 5.33"

Lots of minor changes over the past 37 years that have made the 92FS a better gun.......everyone should get the D-Spring and G-kit (decocker only).

 

[BAM-BAM]

I really disliked the M9. Grip too big, under Seal Team trials the slides cracked and worst of all slide can be lifted off the gun by criminal that is being held at gunpoint. . .

Lots of excuses for the SEAL issue with the F model.... but resolved with the FS model

As to stripping the slide.... I think that was done in one movie..... if someone gets their hand(s) on your gun like that there are easier and faster ways to take it away from its owner!!!

 

[LVSteve]

What a well made pistol, action is smooth as silk with chrome lined barrel. Never had an issue. A lot of people feel it is too large for a 9mm but you have to keep in mind that when the military adopted it, there weren't as many high capacity pistols on the market. Glock was just then gaining popularity. For what it is a full size service pistol, it gets the job done.

I keep reading "...gun A is too big for caliber X..." all over the Internet. It leaves me utterly baffled. The designer of the gun made it that size for a reason. In the case of 9mm pistols for military service, it's all about squeezing the maximum amount of velocity and penetration out of the thing.

Given those parameters, I want a barrel of at least 4.5" to get good velocity given that 9mm is a fairly high pressure load in a handgun. So yeah, the M9, the Star Super B, and the Steyr GB are all the right size in that respect. Where the M9 fails is the size of the grip and trigger reach.

Oddly enough it is not the first time for Beretta. The grip on the Beretta 81 is huge for a gun in .32 ACP, probably to accommodate the 380 cartridge in the later models.

 

[mtnkln]

Always liked the 92g..decock only.