Hornady .357 158 Gr XTP Ammo Jams My New 686!

[Edmo]

There are a lot of good ideas here, however without seeing the revolver most are just guesses (highly educated ones at that). The linked YouTube video provides little extra information other than you likely live in the western portion of the country, your grip isn't the problem, and the operator of the big tripod mounted camera doesn't know how to keep it in focus .

I would recommend one of two options: 1) Have a local gunsmith look at the gun, the ammo, and spent cases. This will likely cost you out of pocket. He may be able to help you, but will likely suggest #2. 2) Contact S&W with a detailed account of the malfunction to include ammo type.

Based on the newness of the gun, if it were mine it would be in a S&W provided FedEx box headed east for warranty work.

Keep us posted.

Edmo

 

[TucsonMTB]

Based on the newness of the gun, if it were mine it would be in a S&W provided FedEx box headed east for warranty work.

+1 . . . If, after looking at the obvious stuff like bullet creep or the cylinder gap closing up for some reason, you have reason to believe something is wrong with the internals . . . this is easily the suggestion most likely to succeed.

Admittedly, if this were my own used revolver, I would (foolishly or not) be poking around under the side plate. But, that's just me. Several wiser forum members have chastised many of us who (good or bad) exhibit that predilection. So, it would be wiser to be patient and send it home to the real experts.

Like Mr. Edmo, I will be interested in reading of your success.

Best of luck, sir!

 

[clevolver]

The only abnormality that I noticed was the cylinder release is locked in the forward position (when the jam occurs with the 158 grain bullets).

I had a similar jam on my 586 (no dash) last time I had it at the range. I puzzled over what could cause the problem for a bit. I, too, noticed the cylinder release was forward instead of to the rear. Due to the way the cylinder release was forward, I was afraid at first that something had broke inside the action. I didn't quite have to pry the cylinder open, but it did take a bit of force to get it to swing out.

Finally, after looking it over several times, I found the real problem: the yoke retention screw had failed to retain the yoke, and recoil caused it to come out maybe 1/16" of an inch, causing the face of the cylinder to hit the forcing cone, jamming the action.

I pushed the yoke back in, and found that everything was back to normal... but why wasn't the screw holding the yoke in place? I backed the screw out entirely, examined it, nothing appeared wrong with it, so I put it back together. This time the screw went in just a little bit more, and was flush with the frame now. Now the yoke is firmly locked into the frame, and won't shift.

I had never had the cylinder off this gun, but I suspect that the previous owner may have taken it off to make cleaning the cylinder easier, and didn't quite put it together correctly when he was done.

So my advice is, check that screw, and the yoke. If there's a gap between the yoke and the frame at the hinge, back the screw out, make sure the yoke is all the way in, and screw it down all the way. Don't go nuts overtightening it, either. But do make sure that the yoke is all the way in before you turn that screw.

 

[686-380]

I had a similar jam on my 586 (no dash) last time I had it at the range. I puzzled over what could cause the problem for a bit. I, too, noticed the cylinder release was forward instead of to the rear. Due to the way the cylinder release was forward, I was afraid at first that something had broke inside the action. I didn't quite have to pry the cylinder open, but it did take a bit of force to get it to swing out.

Finally, after looking it over several times, I found the real problem: the yoke retention screw had failed to retain the yoke, and recoil caused it to come out maybe 1/16" of an inch, causing the face of the cylinder to hit the forcing cone, jamming the action.

I pushed the yoke back in, and found that everything was back to normal... but why wasn't the screw holding the yoke in place? I backed the screw out entirely, examined it, nothing appeared wrong with it, so I put it back together. This time the screw went in just a little bit more, and was flush with the frame now. Now the yoke is firmly locked into the frame, and won't shift.

I had never had the cylinder off this gun, but I suspect that the previous owner may have taken it off to make cleaning the cylinder easier, and didn't quite put it together correctly when he was done.

So my advice is, check that screw, and the yoke. If there's a gap between the yoke and the frame at the hinge, back the screw out, make sure the yoke is all the way in, and screw it down all the way. Don't go nuts overtightening it, either. But do make sure that the yoke is all the way in before you turn that screw.

Clevolver, thanks for the input. The yoke looks and feels tight, no slop at all. Frankly, I don't see a screw for the yoke. Being a relatively newbie to handguns, I enjoy hearing the experiences of you more seasoned folks. I learn almost every time I visit this forum and other gun sites.

 

[scooter123]

I suspect that something has broken on the internal lock. The Bolt for the cylinder release (think Bolt sort of as in Rifle Bolt) and the Lock are nested together in the frame recess. So, one result of the Lock Failing is problems with the cylinder release. This is a very small MIM part and a tiny flaw in this part can leave it in two separate pieces when there should only be one.

You have two options to resolving this problem.

Option One is to contact S&W to have it repaired under warranty. These revolvers have a Lifetime Warranty for the original owner and S&W pays for all of the shipping costs for a warranty repair, so it will only cost you the gasoline to take it to a Fed Ex Shipping Center. Turnaround on warranty repairs are usually quite fast, most times of the year under 3 weeks. Don't know what it will be like with Christmas coming up.

Unfortunately S&W has an absolutely MISERABLE policy of NOT notifying customers about returning repaired firearms so you won't be able to track it coming back to you and be home to sign for it. If you own your own business or work for a gun friendly business I would suggest telling S&W to ship it to your work address.

Second option is to remove the internal lock and be done with it. I don't think that you'll find any Gunsmith willing to do this for a fee due to liability concerns so this is something you will have to do for yourself. You can find videos on Youtube on how to do this and it is fairly easy. However before taking this step I would suggest purchasing the S&W Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen so you get good instructions on how to remove the sideplate properly and some pictures showing how to position the hammer block safety to re-install the sideplate. I would also suggest the purchase of some good gunsmithing screwdrivers so you don't bugger up the screws for the sideplate. If you have any problems post up in the Gunsmithing section and you'll get lots of good instruction. BTW, the first time I removed a sideplate it took me 45 minutes to figure out how to get it back in place correctly, now it takes less than 30 seconds.

 

[flagman1776]

Glad to know your primers are fine.
The front side plate screw does double duty. It also retains the yoke. Although some of the screws may seem the same, the front one is fitted. Be sure it is in all the way & the yoke works freely without binding... & also prevents movement. Getting screws mixed up is a common problem.
I'm not real knowledgeable about the IL, but I trust your observation... the cylinder release is moving forward under recoil for reasons unknown. I'd suspect a bad spring or something to do with the IL. With a new gun, best to deal with it as S&W recommends.

 

[Edmo]

Edmo, First of all, thank you for your service. I'm retired USAF myself.

I already have a reference number from Smith & Wesson. Unfortunately, my wife isn't as familiar with my camcorder as I thought she was. I included the one blurred clip simply to illustrate my grip on the gun.

Once I get my labels from S&W, I'll nervously send my baby off to get well

I salute you for your service.

It is always good to ask for ideas. There are many times when a "I didn't think about that" moment happens based on a suggestion from here.

Don't take me seriously when I picked on the camera prowess of you wife!

Let us know what they come up with. The few weeks it will be gone will seem like an eternity, but they will get your gun running like it should.

On Edit: Take a look at the alignment and straightness of how your barrel is torqued into the frame. I've lately seen several NIB 686s at local gun stores with misaligned barrels. If your is "off" it will not cause the problems you are experiencing, however the trip back to S&W would be a good time to get it straightened.

Edmo

 

[Stevie]

I've got a bucket-full of various .38 special revolvers now. Been shooting them all(and buying more revolvers too)

Anyhow...I've noticed that a couple of these cool old revolvers get tight shooting my wadcutter loads..do fine with my other loads and factory ammo...?

Anyhow..it appears to be caused by a combination of a 'tight' revolver and some unburned powder locking or nearly locking up the gun.

 

[308]

I don't think this is his problem but I have had a flake of unburned powder get blown up under the extractor star and make opening the cylinder hard... but this would not make the cylinder release be forward...
I'm thinking problem with the infernal lock or a weak/broke cylinder release spring...

 

[clevolver]

Clevolver, thanks for the input. The yoke looks and feels tight, no slop at all. Frankly, I don't see a screw for the yoke.

The yoke screw is on the right side of the frame, above the trigger. If you were to unscrew it, it allows you to pull the yoke and cylinder out.

 

[686-380]

The yoke screw is on the right side of the frame, above the trigger. If you were to unscrew it, it allows you to pull the yoke and cylinder out.

Thanks! I wondered if that was it. I won't mess with the gun but having the knowledge is priceless! Later down the road, I may have to try. I'll likely start with my S&W 15-2 .38. I inherited it and it isn't under warranty. It has not given me any hint of trouble since I acquired it (knock on wood).

I can't believe the tremendous amount of information I'm learning in such a short time! Remember what we'd do, BEFORE the internet?!

 

[Doug M.]

Thanks! I wondered if that was it. I won't mess with the gun but having the knowledge is priceless! Later down the road, I may have to try. I'll likely start with my S&W 15-2 .38. I inherited it and it isn't under warranty. It has not given me any hint of trouble since I acquired it (knock on wood).

*
If you are like me, I would not do that. The gun on which I should no unneeded shade tree gun smithing is the one that is working great and out of warranty, especially if it is old enough that parts and skilled labor are hard to get.

 

[686-380]

Update: I have my 686-6 back from the factory. I took it out to the range today to test it out. It performs flawlessly with everything I put through it. This is what the gunsmith reported:

Performed service: Evaluate / Repair
replace hand and ext.

To be honest, I don't know what it means.

I fired enough 158 grain rounds through it to be confident it will perform as required, should the need arise.

My sincere thanks to everyone who contributed some knowledge and advice!!!

 

[buck460XVR]

Update: I have my 686-6 back from the factory. I took it out to the range today to test it out. It performs flawlessly with everything I put through it. This is what the gunsmith reported:

Performed service: Evaluate / Repair
replace hand and ext.

To be honest, I don't know what it means.

I fired enough 158 grain rounds through it to be confident it will perform as required, should the need arise.

My sincere thanks to everyone who contributed some knowledge and advice!!!

....so much for the "has to be the lock!' theory.

 

[686-380]

Internal Lock Theory

....so much for the "has to be the lock!' theory.

Unless the "hand and ext." happen to be part of the lock assembly. I've never heard of these components, not that I'm an expert on firearms.

Regardless, as long as fires the ammunition it's rated for, I'm happy...

 

[Nightowl]

686-380: The hand is the part that rotates the cylinder when the trigger is pulled. The ext is the extractor, the part on the cylinder that the hand contacts to turn the cylinder.

 

[686-380]

686-380: The hand is the part that rotates the cylinder when the trigger is pulled. The ext is the extractor, the part on the cylinder that the hand contacts to turn the cylinder.

Thanks Richard, I love this forum!!

 

[M3Stuart]

The yoke screw is on the right side of the frame, above the trigger. If you were to unscrew it, it allows you to pull the yoke and cylinder out.

I'm late to this thread, but this would have been my second guess behind - 'some crud got under the extractor star'.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

....so much for the "has to be the lock!' theory.

But, but, but... 9/10 keyboard commandos agree the lock is responsible for all revolver kabooms.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Neumann]

If these are reloads, the bullet me by coming out of the case due to recoil. If so, it will interfere with rotation of the cylinder, and make it difficult (or impossible) to open the action. You can try using something to push the bullet back to free the cylinder. Remember! The gun is loaded. If these are reloads, apply more crimp, so that the crimping groove is fully engaged.

The extractor rod can come unscrewed, which makes it difficult to open the cylinder. Ordinarily, it doesn't make the cylinder harder to turn, but it might if it's out too far. You need an extractor wrench to tighten it safely. Fill the cylinder with fired cases to support the ejector star. NEVER USE LOC-TITE on the extractor. It is paper thin at the threads, and will easily twist off if glued.

A bent crane can make the cylinder bind against the barrel in certain positions. Have it examined by a competent gunsmith, especially if you pried the crane open.