Hornady Critical Defense vs Critical Duty?

Titan

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Can someone explain the rough design and functional differences between Hornady's Critical Defense and Critical Duty ammo?

I get that Critical Duty is targeted at LEOs but what, if any, are the substantive differences, beyond marketing?
 
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When I bought my critical defense ammo, I was told it was designed for LEOs. I don't think any store around me even carried critical duty and I live in a big town.
 
maj diff is the flex lock:

hornady.com/store/Critical-DUTY-New
hornady.com/store/Critical-Defense-newammo
 
The Critical Defense ammo is designed to reliably expand from short barrel handguns that are now popular with a lot of people. It does not pass the FBI protocols.

The new Critical Duty ammo is similar to the Critical Defense ammo but it will pass the FBI protocols which makes it eligible to be carried by any LE agency who wishes to use it. While Critical Defense ammo is more of a personal protection ammo Critical Duty ammo is more of a tactical type ammo. (I hope that makes sense)
 
Critical Defense is intended for use in short barreled concealed carry type handguns with low muzzle flash and recoil, the Critical Duty is intended for duty type weapons where muzzle flash and recoil reduction aren't primary concerns.
Think of it along the lines of Speer's Gold Dot and Gold Dot SB.
 
I have some Critical Defense FTX (flex tip eXpanding) in 125 gr. 357. It is designed for full expansion when it enters soft tissue and it penatrates heavy clothing very well. I don't know if non coppers can buy it. Our dept. supply guy makes this and other cop ammo available to us retired guys. I am partial to Speer however...............
 
The Critical Defense ammo is designed to reliably expand from short barrel handguns that are now popular with a lot of people. It does not pass the FBI protocols.

The new Critical Duty ammo is similar to the Critical Defense ammo but it will pass the FBI protocols which makes it eligible to be carried by any LE agency who wishes to use it. While Critical Defense ammo is more of a personal protection ammo Critical Duty ammo is more of a tactical type ammo. (I hope that makes sense)

No, it doesn’t meet the expansion requirements
 
The Critical Defense ammo is designed to reliably expand from short barrel handguns that are now popular with a lot of people. It does not pass the FBI protocols.

The new Critical Duty ammo is similar to the Critical Defense ammo but it will pass the FBI protocols which makes it eligible to be carried by any LE agency who wishes to use it. While Critical Defense ammo is more of a personal protection ammo Critical Duty ammo is more of a tactical type ammo. (I hope that makes sense)

While meeting the FBI criteria is nice, there is no requirement, at least in my state, that duty or off duty ammo meet that criteria.

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I'm not going to speak to expansion, I can't recall what, if any, specs the FBI test protocols had for that.

Critical Defense ammo was specifically designed for a maximum penetration of 10" in 10% ballistic gelatin, per Hornaday. This is below the FBI minimum spec of 12". While I may have differences about what penetration depth is good, a maximum of 10" leaves me a bit uneasy, especially is something like an arm is encountered before the bullet strikes the torso.

The handout Hornaday sent me on Critical Duty showed examples of greatly increased penetration capability in the same 10% ballistic gelatin. IIRC, all exemplars shown met FBI minimum penetration requirements. Expansion looked good, I didn't verify diameters against FBI specs, if any.

With modern designs, heavy clothing generally slows expansion with a corresponding increase in penetration. The fully expanded slug is generally very close to the same diameter as in bare gelatin. I noticed the 135 +P 9mm was 0.040" less in heavy clothing....no big deal.

BTW, the FBI mentions in the front of it's test protocols that agencies/end users should evaluate their own needs before looking at performance in all tests. In other words, if penetrating laminated glass or auto sheet metal isn't one of your concerns, don't worry about how the various loads performed in that test block.

I'll also point out that assuming sufficient penetration and bullet integrity to damage vital organs and structures, bullet placement is far more important than bullet diameter, velocity, construction or alleged performance in a test medium.
 
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Au contraire, in heavy clothing the expansion was 0.551 for the 9mm 135+P. At least in the catalog Hornaday sent me. 0.494 is correct for the standard pressure version. I didn't bother to check the .40.

Remember, the FBI themselves note that the purpose of their test protocol is to provide an apples to apples comparision of different ammunition in a standardized test. It is not predictive of real life results.

I'll also refer you to my comments about bullet placement. Magic bullets can't make up for sloppy shooting.
 
Au contraire, in heavy clothing the expansion was 0.551 for the 9mm 135+P. At least in the catalog Hornaday sent me. 0.494 is correct for the standard pressure version. I didn't bother to check the .40.

Remember, the FBI themselves note that the purpose of their test protocol is to provide an apples to apples comparision of different ammunition in a standardized test. It is not predictive of real life results.

I'll also refer you to my comments about bullet placement. Magic bullets can't make up for sloppy shooting.

I just see it as a standard to be meet.
 
Still it didn't meet FBI protocol of 1.5 expansion.

Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I was wondering where you saw the 1.5x expansion diameter requirement for FBI testing protocols? I've been trying to find it and, as far as I can tell, there is no specific expansion diameter requirement. From what I've seen and read, the goal is penetration depth of 12" to 18" and positive expansion. (CALIBERS -- FBI Ballistic Test Protocol)

I'm no ammo expert, but IMHO, there's always going to be a trade off. You either get more expansion or more penetration. Factors involved in each deal with bullet weight, velocity, design and frontal cross section. Generally, factors that increase penetration include heavier weight, slower bullets, thicker jackets and a narrower frontal cross section. That's why rounds like the Federal HST, which wow most shooters with it's incredible expansion, tends to be on the shallower end of penetration. (http://le.atk.com/pdf/SacramentoCountyWBW.pdf)

Additionally, I seldom care about the diameter of the recovered bullet. What I'm interested in is the wound track between 2" and 7" of penetration. That's when the bullet is at full expansion and cutting tissue as it passes through. Once the petals have been fully peeled back, it's pretty much making a relatively narrow track that closes back down to original bullet diameter.

I think that's where manufacturer tries to find a delicate balance between expansion rate and penetration. When you throw a hollow point round with a thin jacket near the ogive and push it out at +p velocity, you have a tremendous expansion rate once it enters tissue. But the trade off is that you get the parachute effect; where the frontal cross section is enlarged to such a degree so shortly after penetration that overall depth suffers from drag and deceleration. Sure, a heavier bullet can help with that problem, but it won't make it go away.

Anyways, regarding Critical Defense vs. Critical Duty, I think the two rounds are entirely different animals. I don't think I would ever use Critical Defense for any purpose because of it's marginal penetration. While the Critical Duty bullet doesn't look impressive when it's been recovered, take a look at the wound track in gelatin, especially the first few inches. When you combine that with their increased penetration depth, I think it's a very formidable round. Add in it's ability to defeat hard obstacles and it's probably what I would use if I were a LEO. While it's probably not the ideal carry load for the average Joe, based on the FBI's current choice, the Winchester PDX-1, I really think that Critical Duty is a strong candidate for law enforcement...
 
Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I was wondering where you saw the 1.5x expansion diameter requirement for FBI testing protocols? I've been trying to find it and, as far as I can tell, there is no specific expansion diameter requirement. From what I've seen and read, the goal is penetration depth of 12" to 18" and positive expansion. (CALIBERS -- FBI Ballistic Test Protocol)

I'm no ammo expert, but IMHO, there's always going to be a trade off. You either get more expansion or more penetration. Factors involved in each deal with bullet weight, velocity, design and frontal cross section. Generally, factors that increase penetration include heavier weight, slower bullets, thicker jackets and a narrower frontal cross section. That's why rounds like the Federal HST, which wow most shooters with it's incredible expansion, tends to be on the shallower end of penetration. (http://le.atk.com/pdf/SacramentoCountyWBW.pdf)

Additionally, I seldom care about the diameter of the recovered bullet. What I'm interested in is the wound track between 2" and 7" of penetration. That's when the bullet is at full expansion and cutting tissue as it passes through. Once the petals have been fully peeled back, it's pretty much making a relatively narrow track that closes back down to original bullet diameter.

I think that's where manufacturer tries to find a delicate balance between expansion rate and penetration. When you throw a hollow point round with a thin jacket near the ogive and push it out at +p velocity, you have a tremendous expansion rate once it enters tissue. But the trade off is that you get the parachute effect; where the frontal cross section is enlarged to such a degree so shortly after penetration that overall depth suffers from drag and deceleration. Sure, a heavier bullet can help with that problem, but it won't make it go away.

Anyways, regarding Critical Defense vs. Critical Duty, I think the two rounds are entirely different animals. I don't think I would ever use Critical Defense for any purpose because of it's marginal penetration. While the Critical Duty bullet doesn't look impressive when it's been recovered, take a look at the wound track in gelatin, especially the first few inches. When you combine that with their increased penetration depth, I think it's a very formidable round. Add in it's ability to defeat hard obstacles and it's probably what I would use if I were a LEO. While it's probably not the ideal carry load for the average Joe, based on the FBI's current choice, the Winchester PDX-1, I really think that Critical Duty is a strong candidate for law enforcement...
Excellent post. I'd also like to see where FBI testing protocols specify degree of expansion; not saying it isn't out there, just haven't found it.

I have a different take on Critical Defense versus Critical Duty, which comes down to: same round, but the latter has more pepper.

And before you entirely dispense with Critical Defense, take a look at Brass Fetcher test results in both 10% gel, and gel with a bone plate; I think Hornady made a good round for snubbies:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/38 Special/38 Special Bone Test.pdf
 
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