Hornady L&L dies and stations question

[DIYguy]

Been working my way into reloading over the summer stock piling casings, powder, bullets etc etc preparing for MN Winter. Now at the point of ready to start cranking out pistol rounds.
In looking at various recommended die set up configurations none seem to mention the expander die to bell the casing opening. Am I missing something?

Hornady recommended configuration:

#1 Size & deprime
#2 LNL powder drop, case activated
#3 Powder Cop (have)
#4 Pistol bullet feeder die (have)
#5 Tapper crimp seating

I would think:

#1 Size & deprime
#2 Expander die
#3 LNL powder drop, case activated
#4 Pistol bullet feeder die (have)
#5 Tapper crimp seating

Am I missing something from the recommendations? Any suggestions?

 

[DRAINSMITH]

Your bullet feeder came with a PTX. Use this in combo with your power drop, and use the Hornady recommended set up.

 

[DIYguy]

So the bullet feeder die replaces the third expander die that was part of the set?

 

[gwpercle]

Some advice from old reloader.
Don't go loading up 500 - 1000 rounds while you are snowed in without first shooting a few in your gun to make sure they feed , fire and extract. Just going by the book numbers and assuming your loads will work just might be an unwise decision. 9 mm are tricky little devils and do not lend themselves to playing by the book .
More than one has had to invest in a bullet puller and break down all the ammo he loaded because his gun wouldn't digest it.
The 9mm is a little stinker.

38 special, on the other hand , is sweetheart . Just about any load you put together that will fit in the chamber will shoot.

Test fire , then load...the 9's are particular.
Gary

 

[DRAINSMITH]

So the bullet feeder die replaces the third expander die that was part of the set?

no the PXT is inserted in the power drop and the PXT will expand the brass as the power is dropped into the brass.

Go to your LNL owners manual to the section of the power drop, and it will explain how to use the PXT.

 

[Carrier]

Some advice from old reloader.
Don't go loading up 500 - 1000 rounds while you are snowed in without first shooting a few in your gun to make sure they feed , fire and extract. Just going by the book numbers and assuming your loads will work just might be an unwise decision. 9 mm are tricky little devils and do not lend themselves to playing by the book .
More than one has had to invest in a bullet puller and break down all the ammo he loaded because his gun wouldn't digest it.
The 9mm is a little stinker.

38 special, on the other hand , is sweetheart . Just about any load you put together that will fit in the chamber will shoot.

Test fire , then load...the 9's are particular.
Gary

Oh man stinker is putting it nicely. 9mm has got to be the most evil thing to reload. At least it has been for me on my LNL with Hornady dies.

A word of advice there DIYguy is load some of them with no primers and powder and try racking a mag full through your gun to make sure they do chamber and don't set back the bullet.
Much easier to pull bullets this way.

 

[Huskerguy]

1. size and deprime
2. PTX powder die
3. Powder Cop - take your pick - I use the RCBS
4. bullet
5. Crimp

The aftermarket expander die works well and you do not have to change it for each caliber. Keep in mind it does not bell as nicely as the Hornaday PTX does. It does create more of a flair than a bell.

 

[DIYguy]

I had to Google PTX (Powder Through Expander) which opened up more info. Found the replacement expander in my bullet feeder die per some YouTube info.
Rearranged my die configuration per the Hornady recommendation. Tight clearance for the powder drop arms and the bullet feeder tube.
This brings up another question. With the PTX installed need to use the turnbuckle attachment on the metering arms. I've never been able to attach the turnbuckle as the adjustment screws are too long and hit the main body. I see only two options to remedy this, either increase the space between the mounting nut and main body or shorten one of the adjustment screws on the turnbuckle. The spacing for the main body is factory set and not sure what changing this will do the the articulation of the various arms.
Anyone have a recommendation for mounting the turnbuckle?

 

[Carrier]

Do you not have the instruction book for the LNL as it explains how to set up the PTX?
And if you do not have enough room between the top bolt and the powder measure body then loosen top clamp and move it up until you do.
The instructions say to only have a couple threads showing below the top of the PTX but I had to have more to make it fit even after moving powder measure.

 

[Thomas15]

DYI

Hornady refers to the turnbuckle thing as the powder through expander linkage. They cost $7.00 each so I have one for each caliber I load. And as Carrier shows in his picture, mark it to indicate top from bottom. Carriers instructions on raising the powder drop body is the way to go.

I also have a powder drop lower unit for each caliber, these are about $25.00 each but with the linkage and lower unit caliber changes are a lot faster.

 

[7P's]

You're thinking right the 1st time, DIYguy. Powder Cop is a warm fuzzy fee good item but if your powder measure works like mine - it drops a lot of powder spot-on and Varget and long stick powders close enough for government work. Never a squib or double charge - just pay attention when your LnL hits a snag, as that's when you'll have your best opportunity to throw double charges or run a dry case through.

On your expander dies, I'd recommend a die such as Redding, where you can remove the expander stem and polish it down some. I polish mine until nothing touches the case except for the very top bell portion - I set the die so I get the minimum bell to seat the bullet, as I feel it gives me the best case tension, using that method.

 

[DIYguy]

After company left Sunday went and hid in my shop and worked on setting up the press. Plus it was 19 below zero and wind chill in the negative 30s so good day to play with reloading.
Lowered the powder drop body to increase clearance to fit the PTX linkage (it's till a turnbuckle). Played with the settings until achieved full throw and then proper flaring.
Worked on the bullet feeder die and totally disagree with the instructions regarding lowering die body until it touches top of casing and then minor adjustments lower. Kept lowering, no bullet, finally cranked it down till it touched the shell plate and tested. Dropped bullet just fine.
Next worked on taper crimp for seating 9mm. Started with an empty casing and set the die body to touch the case. Replaced with a known factory round to set the bullet depth and and first test round came out right on for OAL.
Couple problems. After bullet drop from the feed when the plate advances to next station the bullet tips over and some times falls off. Only had six bullets loaded in the die I HOPE a full tube will help solve this.
When the bullet is seated and crimped the bullet has a full ring indent in about the middle of the bullet. I tried backing off the die body to see if that was causing the dent but discovered my bullets weren't crimped well enough and could push inside the casing. Think turtle, tip of head poking out of shell. Had to reset the crimp tighter, never got rid of the ring.
Made several batches of about six rounds of no primer, no powder cartridges to test in my M&P. Load up magazine, drop slide and fast rack until empty. Worked fine except the lose crimp batch which turtled.
Is the ring indent just a Hornady thing for the bullet seater and have to live with it or other solution?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I had the Hornady basic powder measure several years ago, one also came with a used first gen L-N-L press I bought. I really liked the measures, but for a case mouth activated drop it is reminiscent of Frankenstein's monster!

The case mouth activated type of drop is only one solution to progressive loading (No real manufacture uses the Idea!). Dillon's 450 originally had a manually pushed drop, Dillon's old 1000 had a "stepped" vertical arm that moved the bar, and after market conversions had similar features. Why on earth you would fight the mechanical advantage to use the rotary arm on the existing drop? It is almost negligent.

I have Dillon's case mouth activated powder drops (in a few sizes) and find them to be only an "adequate" solution to the problem, but I found Hornady's solution to be totally inadequate! I replaced it with a Dillon, and that freed up a great deal of "congestion" on top of the press!

Friction/resistance seem to be one of the long term problems. As you go along and find this contributing to effort problems, I would recommend the liberal use of Hornady's "One Shot" case sizing dry spray lubricant.

Having worked with Hornady's, Dillon's, Camdex's, and some of the older RCBS' progressives there are several ways to get powder in the case accurately, and a number will work on the L-N-L press. Feel free to think outside Hornady's box!

Ivan

 

[Twoboxer]

After company left Sunday went and hid in my shop and worked on setting up the press. Plus it was 19 below zero and wind chill in the negative 30s so good day to play with reloading.
Lowered the powder drop body to increase clearance to fit the PTX linkage (it's till a turnbuckle). Played with the settings until achieved full throw and then proper flaring.
Worked on the bullet feeder die and totally disagree with the instructions regarding lowering die body until it touches top of casing and then minor adjustments lower. Kept lowering, no bullet, finally cranked it down till it touched the shell plate and tested. Dropped bullet just fine.
Next worked on taper crimp for seating 9mm. Started with an empty casing and set the die body to touch the case. Replaced with a known factory round to set the bullet depth and and first test round came out right on for OAL.
Couple problems. After bullet drop from the feed when the plate advances to next station the bullet tips over and some times falls off. Only had six bullets loaded in the die I HOPE a full tube will help solve this.
When the bullet is seated and crimped the bullet has a full ring indent in about the middle of the bullet. I tried backing off the die body to see if that was causing the dent but discovered my bullets weren't crimped well enough and could push inside the casing. Think turtle, tip of head poking out of shell. Had to reset the crimp tighter, never got rid of the ring.
Made several batches of about six rounds of no primer, no powder cartridges to test in my M&P. Load up magazine, drop slide and fast rack until empty. Worked fine except the lose crimp batch which turtled.
Is the ring indent just a Hornady thing for the bullet seater and have to live with it or other solution?

Sounds like you do not have "proper flaring" yet if the bullet falls sideways while indexing. Try getting more bell by tightening the PTX Linkage screw(s) a bit more. OTOH, you can get the LnL to index "softer" by tapping the little ball bearings further into the shellplate. That stops powder from popping out while indexing as well. It's amazing how smooth the indexing can get once this is done.

Note the pawls may need some adjustment after this since it is possible the ball bearings were actually responsible for pulling the shellplate into alignment rather than the pawls properly placing it there.

If you tap the ball bearings in too far, turn the plate over and tap them back out.

Check and see when the bulge/ring occurs. If it occurs after seating the ring MAY be caused by your seater die not being adjusted properly and trying to crimp as well. So if your seater die CAN also crimp make sure it is NOT trying to crimp.

 

[DIYguy]

Hi Twoboxer
Played with the flare a bit at that time and I could manually place a bullet in the casing and turn the casing upside down and the bullet would hold. Checked flare with calipers and read slightly over spec (.387 from memory)
The amount of pressure I can put gently pressing the bullet into the casing verse weight of a half dozen @ 115 grains is probably huge.
Do wonder about different dies and brands. For the 9mm I'm currently testing the Hornady American Classic die rather than the Hornady Custom. Does anyone else have a problem with the die pressing a dented ring in the side of the bullet? Wondering as I have reloads from a friend using his ancient RCBS and his rounds look factory. Mine have the ring.

 

[Carrier]

Hi Twoboxer
Played with the flare a bit at that time and I could manually place a bullet in the casing and turn the casing upside down and the bullet would hold. Checked flare with calipers and read slightly over spec (.387 from memory)
The amount of pressure I can put gently pressing the bullet into the casing verse weight of a half dozen @ 115 grains is probably huge.
Do wonder about different dies and brands. For the 9mm I'm currently testing the Hornady American Classic die rather than the Hornady Custom. Does anyone else have a problem with the die pressing a dented ring in the side of the bullet? Wondering as I have reloads from a friend using his ancient RCBS and his rounds look factory. Mine have the ring.

Are you saying the seater is making this or the crimp? Sounds like too much crimp.

 

[DIYguy]

Has to be the seating die. The ringed dent is all the way around the bullet, 3/16" up from the case and 3/16 down from the tip.
When I backed off the main die a bit to lessen the crimp the bullets would push into the casing so definitely not to much crimp.

 

[LAA]

Has to be the seating die. The ringed dent is all the way around the bullet, 3/16" up from the case and 3/16 down from the tip.
When I backed off the main die a bit to lessen the crimp the bullets would push into the casing so definitely not to much crimp.

I'm not sure if "seating stem" is the correct word, but it's what makes contact with the bullet. Depending on die sets, there are usually interchangeable parts, or the part itself can be reversed. Find the one, that doesn't put a crease in the bullet.

edit: Looking inside this part, there will be different cone shapes, flat spots, etc.

 

[Sclays]

Might be worth sacrificing the bullet feeder.
Separate seat and crimp may solve the problem.
Had similar problem with Hornady LNL