Hot loads in Model 66?

[smithguy47]

Greetings,

Is it ok (safe for shooter and gun) to shoot 125 gr bullets at 1600 fps in a K66 with a 4" barrel?

Published muzzle energy for the cartridge is shown at about 710 ft lbs.

Many thanks,
SmithGuy47

 

[ronnie gore]

66 hot loads

there have been problems with the forcing cone cracking with the 125 grain bullets,everyone says to use 158 grain. and that is what I do.
I have a lot of 125 grain loaded up but I use them in some lever action carbines I have.

 

[OKFC05]

Greetings,

Is it ok (safe for shooter and gun) to shoot 125 gr bullets at 1600 fps in a K66 with a 4" barrel?

Published muzzle energy for the cartridge is shown at about 710 ft lbs.

Many thanks,
SmithGuy47

No. You can't get that kind of speed out of a 4" barrel with any SAAMI load, and you will batter the gun needlessly trying.
Many charts use data from long barrels, which are not valid for shorter ones. I have an 8" Model 686 that will shoot such all day, any day.

 

[smithguy47]

Understood...is there a way to determine a maximum load in 357 mag for this K66 that is safe for shooter and gun. Is there anything published with this information? I'll be using this load for defense.

Thanks.

SG47

 

[Green Frog]

By definition, the Model 66 and its' carbon steel brother the Model 19 are guns designed to shoot 357s from a smaller package than the original design for the cartridge. Any time you shoot near maximum loads from a near minimum gun, you should expect bad things to happen such as stretching the frame, shaking parts loose, cracking the forcing cone, etc. It's just plain physics at work. In reality the K-frame 357s were meant to be shot mostly with 38 spl and 38 spl +P loads with 357s used only for occasional, life threatening type situations. At least that's the way I read it... so I bought a 686 to replace the Model 66 I used in Project 616.

Froggie

 

[JeepinSoldier]

Lots of information on this site in regard to using .357 loads in K frames like the 13/65 and 19/66.

Bottom line is most of them say its fine to shoot 158 grain.357 loads in moderation. The cracked forcing cones and flame cutting seem to come from hot 125 grain loads.

Hottest .357 loads that I will shoot in my 13, 19, or 65 are Speer 158 grain gold dot. I also shoot Federal AE .357 semi jacket soft points.

Id suggest something else for defense. Speer has designed the gold dot short barrel loads to perform at moderate velocity from short barrels.

I load the 135 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 load for defense. It is about 990 feet per second. A .357 'lite' that achieves the needed penetration and expansion without serious recoil and muzzle blast because of bullet design. LA and NYPD have used them to good effect in up to 4" guns.

Why beat up your K frame when a great defensive option is available? Only issue is finding them right now.

 

[dfariswheel]

Understood...is there a way to determine a maximum load in 357 mag for this K66 that is safe for shooter and gun. Is there anything published with this information? I'll be using this load for defense.

Thanks.

SG47

What you're looking for is a reloading manual.
Most powder and bullet companies sell books that contain loading data. This lists a variety of bullet weight, powder, and component type loads with data running from very light to maximum loads.
Most gun shops will sell several popular books like Speer Bullet and Hodgdon Powder company loading manuals.

As above, pushing any gun, but especially a "K frame to the maximum load end of the range wears the gun fast, and can tear it up.
Also as above, the 125 grain bullet hot loads erode the barrels forcing cone and can cause it to crack.

Loads in the 135 to 158 grain range are easier on the gun.

 

[kaaskop49]

Try my favorite factory .357 practice/carry round: the 158gr JHP CCI Blazer. Another poster said it chronos at 990fps from 4" and for some reason, the holes in paper look larger than standard .38/.357 holes. This could be my imagination, but it's still a good load that works well in K-frame magnums.

 

[rwsmith]

Man after my own heart

I load the 135 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 load for defense. It is about 990 feet per second. A .357 'lite' that achieves the needed penetration and expansion without serious recoil and muzzle blast because of bullet design. LA and NYPD have used them to good effect in up to 4" guns.

That's my load, too. ".357 lite" is a good moniker, I've been calling that a home made .38 +P+. Except right now I can't find Gold Dots so I'm using a 140 gr. Sierra jhp.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I have a 19 which I have owned a long time and shot a lot. I have shot just about every kind of 38 and 357 ammo that I could get my hands on.
Never shot that many lighter bullets. Used to load mostly
150s and 165s. Have shot a bunch of GI 130s including tracers.
The hottest ammo I ever shot? I think Remington factory metal piercing. I believe it was marked something like for law enforcement only. Had a cone nose bullet, don't remember the weight.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I think Buffalo Bore has a 125 grain .357 Magnum load that runs that fast, don't they?

The problem is the length of the bullet - the 125 doesn't seal the barrel cylinder gap quite long enough - that extra little fraction of a second seems to make the difference. The 125s that caused all of the problems were running at 1400 or 1425, so I cannot imagine that a 125 at 1600 would be any better for it.

I say don't do it.

 

[Smilodon]

My stomach lurched a bit when I read your proposed loading. I once owned (and loved very much) a 66. It never saw a 125 gr. bullet, and only a couple of boxes of factory 158 gr 357 loads. The rest of its diet was 38 specials, and very mild 357 handloads. The forcing cone still cracked. With my gun, the problem was not ammo. The bottom of the forcing cone was relieved excessively, leaving it dangerously thin. One of these days, I will replace it, but I'll give the forcing cone a close look first.

 

[Green Frog]

Those early, unfortunate Model 66s with the cracked forcing cones would be great candidates to convert to Model 616s (see http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/260686-project-616-a.html ) if only barrels and cylinders could be made available reasonably... just sayin'... :rolleyes"

Froggie

 

[Old Corp]

Have often wondered about the effect of the 'in between' weights in magnum rounds in K frames.
For many years,(and younger and dumber...) I handloaded very hot Super Vell 137 gr. JSP, Speer 140 gr. JHP, Speer 146 gr. SJHP and the Sierra 150 gr. JHP.
Most of these were shot in either a M28 or a Security Six, but occasionally would find there way into my old duty M66.
The whole 'magnum bullet weight' discussion seems to center on 110/125 gr. bullets and then jumps to 158.
There's a bunch of good bullets in between.
Matters not a whole lot to me now - most of my .357's see very few magnum rounds anymore.

 

[Doug M.]

I suspect that unless one is really skilled with arcane powders and data, that velocity is not realistic in a 4" .357 of any frame size. I also suspect that it would be so unpleasant to shoot that your hand would give up on the beating before you could shoot enough rounds to do any damage to the frame. I had 2 recommendations for serious ammo for my .357s: 145 grain SilverTip (scarce like Unicorn) and the 135 grain Gold Dot SB referred to above as the .357 lite.

You want something to run that hot, look at .38 Super and the like. I personally would be perfectly content with the 125 grain 357 at anywhere from an actual velocity of 1200 fps on up to maybe 1400, which would probably be pushing the limits of unpleasant. I am not likely to shoot enough hot .357s to bugger up a K frame, but someone who is more serious about training with that setup might.

 

[poordevil]

125gr Remington and Federal are supposed to give about 1450 fps from a 4"BBL. That is plenty hot for me and my 6" M-66.

 

[Smilodon]

Those early, unfortunate Model 66s with the cracked forcing cones would be great candidates to convert to Model 616s (see http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/260686-project-616-a.html ) if only barrels and cylinders could be made available reasonably... just sayin'... :rolleyes"

Froggie

I don't get on the net as often as I would like due to eye problems, which I will get corrected 11/12/13. After reading your post, I may buy another 66 off the web. If the forcing cone looks thin, then I'll just start looking for another barrel and cylinder. I would actually rather have a 616 than a 66. I am a fan of 32s, having two 32 H&R magnums. The idea of having a 327 mag really excites me.