How Can You Avoid This Outcome?

[biku324]

So; the news story below is about a tragedy. Read, digest it, then think of the things you could do to avoid a similar outcome. Not things others coulda, shoulda, woulda done. What could you do differently, what actions and/or tactics could you use or take? Things under your control.

Body camera footage shows police in New Mexico going to wrong address and fatally shooting homeowner

 

[LVSteve]

Learn to read numbers and understand what is coming out of your radio are my first two recommendations.

Qualified immunity of no, I suspect Mrs Dotson will have no need to work ever again.

 

[Fishinfool]

There is really no excuse it seems in this case for the wrong address. "Follow the leader" syndrome, tunnel vision, seeing what you expect to see, ect., are probably factors, but not excuses.

As far as the shooting, sometimes there is no "correct" solution. Wrong address or not, someone comes to the door with a gun in their hand (I am going to make a big assumption here, that it was pointed at the officers). Do you hold your fire, hoping the man pointing his gun at you doesn't kill you, or do you shoot in defence of your and your partners lives?

And the wife. Even if you know, at that point, you screwed up and shot an innocent man, when she comes into possession of a gun, and starts shooting at you, do you protect yourself, or stand there and take a bullet, or two, because you feel bad? Maybe run and take cover, followed by a little communications to defuse the situation, which it sounds like they did.

Provided they announced themselves clearly, multiple times, were in full uniform, and the poor slob who answered the door was holding the handgun in such a way as to be an immediate threat, I don't see any glaring mistakes, other than the wrong address thing, which is of course, a big deal.... One thing not mentioned in the article was whether or not any of the officers watched the entrance area thru a window while the other officers knocked on the door. Might have seen him coming with the gun and been able to take cover, and possible defuse things before any shooting started.

I have knocked on my share of doors at night, and always made sure the contact officers were clearly dressed as police officers, not Ninja's. Always made sure we announced "POLICE" loud and clear. Always positioned ourselves with an escape route and cover in mind, and with domestics, would often have the dispatches stay on the line with the caller, and try to have them come to the door via the dispatcher. Watching thru a window is basic 101 stuff.

I really don't like second guessing these things, especially without all the facts.

Larry

 

[twodog max]

The police need to get their act together. There are far to many videos out there of police going to wrong addresses and escalating issues.
I cannot truly express my opinions here without entering into forbidden territory.
So I will let it go at this. we do not need to defund police but we sure need better trained, less militarism and less of the circle the wagons atittude in law enforcement.

 

[Harmonica]

Learn to read numbers and understand what is coming out of your radio are my first two recommendations.

Qualified immunity of no, I suspect Mrs Dotson will have no need to work ever again.

1- humans make mistakes-it's not a crime for cops to knock on the wrong door
--there are over 10 million arrests per year
--millions more police contacts
--millions more traffic stops
= there is nothing wrong with the police
2 - the police did everything right --as usual in most of these shootings
--a .they did not go in ''BLASTING''
--b. after there was no answer, they did not go in BLASTING
----they called dispatch
3 - it was a domestic disturbance call--very dangerous, and someone comes out with a firearm--very stupid:
---a. if he knows they are cops, don't come out with a firearm
---b. if he doesn't know they are cops, it's much safer inside
---c. the cops have as much right to self defense as he does

==== these are dynamic--dynamic-- situations- humans dealing with humans..it's not a TV show or movie
caps for emphasis only at all times

 

[Alk8944]

I usually refrain from commenting on this sort of incident as monday-morning quarterbacking has no place. This really belongs in a Police Tactics training session, not a public forum where the majority of readers have never been "On the job" and have no comprehension of the dynamics of police work! Enough said about this.

There are three glaring errors I see. First is the address. The article says there were three officers present who had 5, 5, and 3 years experience. Didn't it register with any of them that they were on the wrong side of the street for the address they were responding to? That should have been a big clue to all of them!
Second, didn't any of them listen to the dispatcher when she? verified the address. Obviously at least one of the officers recognized a problem with the address or they would not have asked for verification.

And third, the article said the officers fired immediately upon seeing the man in possession of a gun! Were they approaching a "domestic disturbance" with guns drawn???? If so, why. Did anyone challenge the homeowner before firing to give him the chance to put the gun down? Or did they fire upon merely seeing the gun, which he probably had a perfect right to have under the circumstances.

The suggestion that someone should have been looking in a window to see who approached the door is ludicrous! In all my years on the job it has been exceedingly unlikely this would be possible with most houses, and most windows have blinds, shades or drapes covering them. At 23:30 it is likely the house lights were off too. I looked at the address in Google Earth, there are no windows placed so that you could look in and see who was approaching the door! At the time the car doing the photo work passed, the only window that was a possibility did have drapes covering it, and this was probably still true the night of the incident.

What about the poor victim across the street possibly getting the snot beat out of her while this incident was going on! What happened there?

The only bright spot in all this is the wife was not injured!

Finally, the linked news article probably had 90% of the facts depicted wrong, and we have no real basis to comment in the first place!

 

[Harmonica]

The police need to get their act together. There are far to many videos out there of police going to wrong addresses and escalating issues.
I cannot truly express my opinions here without entering into forbidden territory.
So I will let it go at this. we do not need to defund police but we sure need better trained, less militarism and less of the circle the wagons atittude in law enforcement.

see post # 5 = there is no problem with the police
--of course there will be mistakes, etc -- they are humans!!!! they will make bad decisions, etc
--pilots are very, very well trained and paid well--and are supposed to be very smart --but they make human mistakes that kill hundreds
--just like in combat, you can train all day every day--but you don't know how HUMANS will react
--it's not a TV show or movie
--militarism?? I saw none of that in the video
etc

 

[Harmonica]

--and--I will add this to my other posts:
if a policeman gets out of line--even so much as verbally, I say they should be punished, laid off, etc
..I've seen videos of police verbally abuse people and think they should have been kicked off the job--you are going to have those types of police, no matter how much you train them, or how much you review them
--but there is no major problem with the police

 

[Harmonica]

..here's the other things:
--the occupant is opening the door--why? because of something he heard outside, etc--he did not look outside first? this would be the smart thing to do = look out the window, etc ....you just go outside and not look out??
...now if he didn't see anyone, why go outside?
..if he saw someone in police uniform-well don't open the door with a firearm

 

[BSA1]

I am a retired leo and no longer trust the Police.

"Swatting" calls are apparently becoming common. It is easy to take revenge on a neighbor, co-worker or someone a person is angry at with a simple telephone call. In Wichita, Kansas a unarmed homeowner was shot and killed on his front porch even though there were plenty of officers at the scene and they were shouting confusing commands. The D.A. refused to prosecute the officer but the City just approved a $5,000,000 settlement to the family.

I am a lawbiding homeowner and if someone starts banging on my front door claiming to be the Police I am arming myself and refusing to come to the door. With the tactical vests, dark uniforms they are not clearly identifiable.

The home is my castle. If the police want to enter my home they need to announce that they have a warrant. When I worked the street we responded to D.V. calls we would stand outside unannounced and listen for voices and what was being said. When we try to determine how many people were in the home by listening to the voices (children present for example) before knocking and announcing ourselves. This is just Police 101 procedure.

In some cities I have read about criminals claiming to be Police Officers raiding homes Times have changed. Cameras and cellphones are making it easier to identify police misconduct. In Wichita a Police Captain retired after 29 years of service. He was immediately arrested for five countso of computer crimes. This type of crime just reinforces the image that the Police are rotten to the core.

Times are changing. The Police must become more transparent to earn and keep the trust of the public.

 

[Maddog 521]

Verify----Verify-----Verify

 

[Heinz]

I do not open the door without knowing who is at the door. I have a window that allows me to see the door and a doorbell camera that also allows me to talk with whoever is at the door.

I never greet police officers with gun in my hand.

Mistakes get made. I would rather be mistakenly arrested than mistakenly shot.

BSA1 above also has a valid viewpoint.

I think it best to get the conversation going before you open the door to anyone you do not know or did not call

 

[grover99]

A lot of second guessing here but in my life I have had personal knowledge of two serious incidents involving shootings and loss of life because of them. In both cases, there were serious and misleading errors in the news reports coming from these incidents. Some facts presented by the news media were just plain wrong so in these cases is very difficult determine exactly what happened without personal knowledge or reliable reports.

 

[Bald1]

I think the OP was asking what could the homeowner have done differently. The part that bothers me is the cop chuckling after realizing he's at the wrong house. Like it's no big deal. When you wake someone from a sound sleep with banging on the door, and you're dressed in dark colors on someone's porch, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[biku324]

I think the OP was asking what could the homeowner have done differently.

Precisely right - what can we, as homeowners who also are firearms owners, do to avoid this kind of tagedy?

 

[MRB1]

There's no question that some police are at fault, for whatever reasons, and mistakes happen. The resident can do a little to prevent problems by simply making sure that your residence is clearly marked with the address. A clearly marked residence is a lifesaver for fire, police and emergency crews, and it's surprising how many places are unmarked.

 

[Mike 139]

A basic Door Viewer, aka " Peephole" is available in 180 or 200 degree view, made of Brass and runs under $20….Installed by drilling a small hole thru the Door and screwing the two halves together…You can see who's outside w/o opening the Door…..In the video of this incident, there's an outside light on on the side of the House, but no inside lights on…On almost all the Domestics I responded to, ALL the lights were on inside and over 50% of the time had spilled out into the street….No issues with the correct location….

I'm long Retired, but on a 911 call, Dispatch would keep the Caller on the phone until Units arrived and ascertained the situation was under control/ resolved. New Officers, after graduating the Academy, were assigned to ride with Senior Officers, who were FTOs, Field Training Officers, who went thru a State certification process, and wrote weekly evaluations on each Trainee….When done, Trainees would than ride midnites solo until they passed probation and got enough seniority to bid on a better shift/ days off….Each Sergeant has 5-6 Officers in his squad and IS responsible for what they do, He/She is supposed to listen to the Radio and respond as Back- up on Calls…and make decisions...We typically had 6-7 squads per shift , each Officer assigned a Zone ,with one Shift Commander, per Shift. a Lt….it's called accountability.

 

[Harmonica]

I am a retired leo and no longer trust the Police.

"Swatting" calls are apparently becoming common. It is easy to take revenge on a neighbor, co-worker or someone a person is angry at with a simple telephone call. In Wichita, Kansas a unarmed homeowner was shot and killed on his front porch even though there were plenty of officers at the scene and they were shouting confusing commands. The D.A. refused to prosecute the officer but the City just approved a $5,000,000 settlement to the family.

I am a lawbiding homeowner and if someone starts banging on my front door claiming to be the Police I am arming myself and refusing to come to the door. With the tactical vests, dark uniforms they are not clearly identifiable.

The home is my castle. If the police want to enter my home they need to announce that they have a warrant. When I worked the street we responded to D.V. calls we would stand outside unannounced and listen for voices and what was being said. When we try to determine how many people were in the home by listening to the voices (children present for example) before knocking and announcing ourselves. This is just Police 101 procedure.

In some cities I have read about criminals claiming to be Police Officers raiding homes Times have changed. Cameras and cellphones are making it easier to identify police misconduct. In Wichita a Police Captain retired after 29 years of service. He was immediately arrested for five countso of computer crimes. This type of crime just reinforces the image that the Police are rotten to the core.

Times are changing. The Police must become more transparent to earn and keep the trust of the public.

...see my posts above...the police are ''out of control'' ''police brutality all over, ALL the time'' are some of the biggest myths of the decade
....so you are stereotyping every police officer for what a very, very few do....?!

...I've never had a problem with the police...neither has anyone in my family....

 

[Harmonica]

I am a retired leo and no longer trust the Police.

"Swatting" calls are apparently becoming common. It is easy to take revenge on a neighbor, co-worker or someone a person is angry at with a simple telephone call. In Wichita, Kansas a unarmed homeowner was shot and killed on his front porch even though there were plenty of officers at the scene and they were shouting confusing commands. The D.A. refused to prosecute the officer but the City just approved a $5,000,000 settlement to the family.

I am a lawbiding homeowner and if someone starts banging on my front door claiming to be the Police I am arming myself and refusing to come to the door. With the tactical vests, dark uniforms they are not clearly identifiable.

The home is my castle. If the police want to enter my home they need to announce that they have a warrant. When I worked the street we responded to D.V. calls we would stand outside unannounced and listen for voices and what was being said. When we try to determine how many people were in the home by listening to the voices (children present for example) before knocking and announcing ourselves. This is just Police 101 procedure.

In some cities I have read about criminals claiming to be Police Officers raiding homes Times have changed. Cameras and cellphones are making it easier to identify police misconduct. In Wichita a Police Captain retired after 29 years of service. He was immediately arrested for five countso of computer crimes. This type of crime just reinforces the image that the Police are rotten to the core.

Times are changing. The Police must become more transparent to earn and keep the trust of the public.

swatting calls are common? can you prove that?

 

[glenwolde]

If someone was pounding on my front door, I wouldn't open the door with a gun in my hand. If you feel the need for the gun, why open the door? Arm yourself, keep the door locked, dial 911.

I'm not saying it was his fault. It seems it was everybody's fault.