How did you receive your rifle, packaging, wrapping, stuff included?

[SamNavy]

Lurked for weeks, but just registered and first post.

Just picked up my MP15 OR at local FFL. Struck me odd that box was open. They had cut the tape on the box and it had obviously been opened and the gun removed and handled because there were fingerprints on it that I can't believe came from the factory.

So...
S&W MP15 marked box
top/bottom foam padding
Rifle w/red barrel insert, BCG/CH installed
PMAG in wrapper
waranty card
owners manual

I'm assuming that my gun arrived at my FFL in plain-paper wrapping, with my name on the package, CARE OF my FFL? Why would they unwrap it, open the box, and handle the rifle... shouldn't it be my job to do the initial inspection?

Are the contents of my box complete? Did your gun come wrapped in plastic or anything else within the box, or just sitting inside on the foam?

I've received 2 guns from this FFL before, and didn't note this issue with either one of them. I know for a fact that my Savage MKII was fully sealed because I broke the tape myself and had to ask how to insert the bolt.

Thanks Guys!

 

[SamNavy]

UPDATE: yes, I know this is about 10 minutes after my first post, but the instant I hit the SubmitNewThread button, I got the idea to check Youtube for some unboxing videos... found about 10.

So, I feel better about how I received my gun. There was no additional packaging of the rifle in any of the videos... the gun was just sitting on the foam, with BCG/CH installed.

The only thing I seemed to be missing was a cable-lock, which I already have 10 of (but none with S&W logo on them).

I also saw in 2 videos that there was a S&W logo'd paper wrapper on the handguard.

Anyways, question answered, but still not happy that they cut the tape for some reason... still interested in any deviations if you got something different.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Many ffl's open up the box to verify that the serial number on the rifle matches the paperwork. If there is a discrepancy, an FFL could be fined, or even lose their license.

 

[Dragon88]

There should have been a free M&P Shield and a bar of gold in the box. They stole from you!



They pulled the gun out to check the serial. If you don't trust your FFL then why do you use them for transfers?

 

[storeyteller]

I received mine with joy and gratitude.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Actually that is a federal crime to open a gun box .llike that and steal the lock out of it. Even though you will never use it, Federal Law requires that the rifle be delievered to you with the lock. Anyone who interferes with this is guilty of violation of Title 18 USCode.

 

[andyems10]

When I went to my FFL to pick up my M&P 15 it was still sealed with the shipping tape. It was not wrapped in anything. Address label was slapped on the side of the S&W box. FFL opened it up for me and we both inspected it together. No other paper, adds or anything on the gun. Gun was just laying in the foam box. Mag was still in wrapper, cable lock was under the foam padding along with the paperwork. Although I can't remember what different paperwork was with it beside the owners manual.

 

[turbo38gn]

Did you remove the foam, you might find more goodies, like the lock under it. Or the 9mm Shield may be in there too...

 

[tight0023]

Everything but the rifle was under the foam in my box. The PMAG, Magpul tactical carbine DVD's, cable lock and the paperwork. However it may have been moved there when the bullet button was installed (CA) legal.

 

[oneyeopn]

I received my Sport in the box, laying on the foam, no wrapping. I did not receive a lock, my mag was not wrapped in anything but the paperwork was all there. Just to state how it came. I trust my ffl person but they wouldnt have taken the lock out. Who ever sent the rifle took the lock out!!

 

[Foxtrot]

We get our M&P 15 OR's on contract with an FFL. I'm not sure what the retail customer gets as a standard routine, i've seen different things. All of ours came with the weapon in the foam padded black hard case, 6 Pmags (5 added by the FFL as part of the contract), paperwork/manual/warranty card. Then the FFL puts in the specified sight/optics/accessory package and bundles it all together for us. On the contract is how I get my personal purchase weapons also as long as I use them for duty too so mine come the same way. Some of the first ones we got had the cable weapons lock, the rest did not. I've seen some of these others come straight out of the shipping box right from S&W and they did not have a weapons lock with them.

We don't use the weapons locks or hard cases anyway, most we give away to local firearms educational programs or groups. Got a bunch of the hard cases stacked up in storage, we give them away to our folks who ask for them and on occaision to local citizens in some circumstances such as for firearms educational program participation. We are required to either maintain them in inventory, send them to the occaisional auction, destroy them, or get permission to give them away.

 

[JaPes]

Black foam padded hard case!?! 6 Pmags!?! Wow.

My 15-Sport came in a S&W cardboard box, 1 PMAG, user's manual, & lock.

 

[SamNavy]

Thanks for all the great replies. Looks like we're all learning a few things.

It's interesting after watching a few more unboxing videos and reading these posts that there are many variations on a theme depending on what particular model you buy, who your FFL is, what state you may be in, and what color the sky is that day.

In a few unboxing videos, the guy breaks the tape himself at home in his living room, so there's no way the FFL/dealer compared the serial numbers with the box or his paperwork at the store... very strange.

I think that I'd feel more comfortable initially opening the box myself in front of my FFL. His need to check the serial number should not be a reason to open it himself prior to my arrival or in a back room while I'm waiting out front. I can't figure out a reason why he'd assume that liability.

The other thing is that there's nothing on the box with my name on it. Should I call the online dealer I bought from and ask for their records to make sure I got the right gun? What if they received several M&P15's that week, opened them all, and got a couple mixed up and I've got some other dudes gun? Why would they even take it out of the plain paper wrapping?

Here's how I think it should be done:

I verify the box is actually addressed to me, then unwrap it, cut the tape myself. I do this in front of him, inspect the gun while he watches, agree that it's acceptable and that I'll take it. THEN, do the 4473 and actually make the transaction. If there's something wrong with the gun and I need to send it back, then there's no reason to do the background check and no reason for him to charge me anything.

I'm moving out of Lousiana and will never use this FFL again, so it's a moot point... but my Virginia guy I know for a fact doesn't open boxes himself.

Does anybody else think the FFL opening the box ahead of my arrival or outside my presence is a bad idea? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Foxtrot]

There is nothing odd about it at all, an FFL has no obligation to wait until you are present because until the transfer to you is complete the FFL legally "owns" the weapon. FFL's have a legal obligation to ensure the serial number and type weapon, of the actual physical weapon inside the box, they receive matches what the invoice/manifest/factory records state, if they are going to store, stock, transfer, display or offer for sale or lease, a firearm or act as a transfer delivery point for a firearm. They can do this at any time, some do it at transfer, others do it when they receive the weapon (which is the common expected norm in a retail gun store, sales, or storage situation), some do it in prep for the transfer (which is also common but its more common in a retail gun store, sales, or storage situation for the box to be opened upon receiving), some never do it unfortunately (which can possibly place the FFL and their customers at the wrong end of the law). They also have an obligation to ensure the weapon they transfer, or will transfer, is in compliance with any other federal or state laws as well. If it was shipped from the factory designated just for you does not matter, as long as the FFL has posession of it and the transfer has not been completed the FFL is responsible for following the law.

You can choose to reject the transfer to you at any time for any reason prior to transfer, if its what you ordered/wanted in some cases you may still be held responsible for shipping, processing, administrative, stocking costs. If you did not get the weapon you ordered/wanted has no bearing in the matter in relation to who opened the box, because when you go to get the weapon you will still know if its what you ordered/wanted or not and if it isn't you can reject the transfer.

Its not a bad idea, just as its not a bad idea if its important to you to ask that you be present before the box is opened. Most, if you ask, will wait until you are present before opening the box (if the box was not already opened by them). Did you ask them to wait?

If an FFL does not ensure the serial number and type of actual physical weapon inside a box matches the invoice/manifest/factory records AND ensures the actual physical weapon inside the box is legal for you to posess, prior to transfer, yet still transfers the weapon to you then an illegal firearms transfer has occured. This is an FFL you need to run away from instead of doing business with because accepting transfer of such a weapon means you have aided/participated in an illegal firearms transfer. The FFL opening the box and carrying out their legal obligation is actually in your best interest and theirs. If the transfer is not legal then you do not legally own the firearm even though you may physically posess it. If you choose to have the FFL wait until you are present before the box is opened, and they consent, thats ok. However, the FFL has no obligation to actually wait for you to be present before opening the box and may open the box anytime prior to actual transfer completion.

 

[JaPes]

In a few unboxing videos, the guy breaks the tape himself at home in his living room, so there's no way the FFL/dealer compared the serial numbers with the box or his paperwork at the store... very strange.

You have to put your critical thinking cap on here dude. It's a video. You have no way of assigning any credibility on an unboxing video.

Some dealers will tape the box before the customer leaves the store. The person who made the video could have taped the box themselves to add "authenticity" to the box opening video.

Whenever I've signed out the ATF 4473, the dealer (LGS or BB) and I open the firearm and triple check the SN listed on the form, then I go home with my firearm.

I think that I'd feel more comfortable initially opening the box myself in front of my FFL. His need to check the serial number should not be a reason to open it himself prior to my arrival or in a back room while I'm waiting out front. I can't figure out a reason why he'd assume that liability.

The FFL/LGS may choose open the firearm prior to your arrival for two reasons.

First and foremost, he has to log the SN of the firearm into his bound book. During a FFL transfer, the sending FFL transfers ownership to the receiving FFL. The receiving FFL then transfers it to you, following your local state procedure.

The second reason is to check for shipping damage. The longer it takes to report damage from shipping, the less credible the claim is. At my workplace, we check every inbound shipment for damage within 24 - 48 hours so that any damage claims remain credible.

The other thing is that there's nothing on the box with my name on it. Should I call the online dealer I bought from and ask for their records to make sure I got the right gun? What if they received several M&P15's that week, opened them all, and got a couple mixed up and I've got some other dudes gun? Why would they even take it out of the plain paper wrapping?

Would you have felt better if the LGS took a black sharpie marker and scribbled your name on the cardboard box?

While individually serialized, a 15-Sport is a 15-Sport is a 15-Sport. It's a quasi-fungible commodity. Your gun only becomes yours when the FFL delivering the gun to you puts the SN of the firearm on the ATF 4473 form. So the possiblity does exist that your FFL had a stack of 15-Sports, pulled any old one for you. I think the probability of this is low. FFL's usually do not want to assume the liability for breaking the logged fiearms SN transfer chain for individual transfers.

If there's something wrong with the gun and I need to send it back, then there's no reason to do the background check and no reason for him to charge me anything.

Is there anything wrong with your M&P 15?

Some fiearms FFL dealers charge for the FBI-NICS check, some don't. They're free to charge whatever they want for the service. One LGS nearby charges $10, another charges $4, yet another will charge $20.

but my Virginia guy I know for a fact doesn't open boxes himself.

Then your "Virginia guy" is choosing to assume some risk in order to satisfy the end customer. That's a customer service call on his part. He could also be taping the boxes up prior to your arrival so you feel like you're opening it yourself.

Does anybody else think the FFL opening the box ahead of my arrival or outside my presence is a bad idea?

No it is not a "bad" idea. The FFL has to do what they have to do so that they remain in compliance with the law and not have their FFL license rescinded.

I do understand where you are coming from. I would feel better if I could break the seal on a new firearm's packaging myself, but it's never going to happen. Even if I request it form the receiving FFL holder and get to break the tape on the box, I still assume that the receiving FFL opened the box to log the firearm into their bound book and has repackaged the firearm to humor me.

IMO, the most important part is to check whether or not the new firearm shows signs of being fired in excess of a factory/manufacturer test fire. If I see signs of the new firearm being shot in excess of the factory/manufacture test fire, then I'll take issue.

Is there something I'm missing?

Yes.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Sam, are there any Curio & Relic firearms you're interested in? These are firearms classified by the BATFE that can be transferred between a full FFL license dealer & a C&R FFL license holder. A "regular" person can apply for a C&R FFL for $35. Think of the C&R FFL license as a neutered FFL license.

I hold a C&R FFL just in case I encounter a Walther P39 / Walther P1 at a price/condition that I wish for. When I received my C&R FFL license, it came with a printed rule book a couple inches thick, some additional forms, and a CD-ROM full of PDF's.

A C&R FFL is a nice thing to have so that I can acquire C&R firerms without going through a full FFL license holder. Some online firearms supply retailers (Brownells & MidwayUSA) extend a discount to FFL holders (including C&R FFL).

The second benefit was being forced to read through all the rules. I don't need to remember them all in detail, but I did pay attention to the bound book requirement. I'm required to keep a bound book to log my inbound & outbound C&R fiearms. Mine has a single entry for a Mosin-Nagant. It's silly to have a bound book for a single firearm, but if I don't and the BATFE gets a bug up their butt to check me out and I don't have a bound book ... I'm in trouble.

There is an unbelievable amount of Federal rules, regulations, laws on top of State & local which a full FFL dealer license holder must comply. The two local FFL holders which I work with each tell me that if the BATFE inspects their records and finds a single mistake, the BATFE can unilaterally rescind their license.

All of that aside, the most important question I have for you is....

How does your new M&P 15 shoot? Are you having a ball shooting it? Any fit/finish or cycling issues?

Also ... welcome aboard.

 

[Stebo]

"It's a quasi-fungible commodity."

John,

Think "smaller" words! I had to look that one up.

 

[JaPes]

LOL.

I'm a computer admin (glorified computer janitor) at a local college. The perception of the quality of my work is directly proportional to the vocabulary I employ in that environment.

I try to sound smart so that I don't get second guessed by the academicians.

 

[rtquig]

Received my 2nd Sport today. It wasn't in the box, had no tag on the handle and all the paper work and lock were under the foam. The gun was locked up in a safe. I looked it over and it was clean, will take it apart tomorrow and give it a good cleaning.