How many of you have fired full house .357 Magnums - - - in your snubbies
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SAWBONES
Member
I spent several range sessions a number of years ago, firing most of the available premium commercial (Federal, Speer, Winchester) .357 Magnum JHP loads in 110gr and 125gr, in my 340PDs, at least 10 rounds of each (and not more than 40 of any one type), at 7 yards, using 8.5 x 11" targets with a 3" bullseye, slow-fire.
Later, I shot many of the commercial premium .38 Special+P JHP or LSWCHP loads in 135gr and 158gr, for comparison.
My interest was in determining the best .357 load, in terms of both accuracy and precision, in that particular little lightweight 1 7/8" barrel gun, since I thought of it as a "carried a lot, shot a little" type of gun, and wanted the most potent load I could get that was also accurate and precise.
I'm not "recoil-sensitive" by any means, but it wasn't really that much fun, though neither was it actually painful. Felt recoil was certainly "sharp" with the .357 loads, especially the 125gr.
The upshot of it was that, in spite of good hold and good sight alignment and good trigger control, NONE of the .357 loads were as accurate or as precise as certain of the .38 Special+P loads.
The overall winner was .38 Special Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P JHP, so that's what gets carried in my 340PDs.
Later, I shot many of the commercial premium .38 Special+P JHP or LSWCHP loads in 135gr and 158gr, for comparison.
My interest was in determining the best .357 load, in terms of both accuracy and precision, in that particular little lightweight 1 7/8" barrel gun, since I thought of it as a "carried a lot, shot a little" type of gun, and wanted the most potent load I could get that was also accurate and precise.
I'm not "recoil-sensitive" by any means, but it wasn't really that much fun, though neither was it actually painful. Felt recoil was certainly "sharp" with the .357 loads, especially the 125gr.
The upshot of it was that, in spite of good hold and good sight alignment and good trigger control, NONE of the .357 loads were as accurate or as precise as certain of the .38 Special+P loads.
The overall winner was .38 Special Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P JHP, so that's what gets carried in my 340PDs.
OP
Data is data. When the bad dirt hits the swirling blades you won't have a misfire so it won't be useless (comparatively speaking) but the guy next to you shooting the same gun with .38s will hit faster and more often. That's all I'm suggesting. Since none of us likely has or wants that particular data it is actually all conjecture, somebody already told me that. I granted YMMV so let it be; this is not an argument, it's a friendly discussion.
If you want to compare you can do it yourself - fire 5 rounds or 6, depending on the gun - at a target 7 yards away, do it in 5 seconds, same as on the Texas CHL test, score it, see which one wins. If you can beat your .38s with your .357 (please, not with a short barreled Ruger SP-101 or a 686 or even a Model 19) I'll eat crow. Even better, do it one handed. Kind of like in a panic situation.
Data is data - I believe your data - but I don't think you can outshoot your .38s with your .357s. Jus' sayin', and bein' friendly - try it, send us that data, pictures maybe, and I will be delighted to say I was wrong. I have been wrong before.
Last year it happened on a Tuesday......
***GRJ***
Recoil isn't much of a factor with 357 in 2" barrels.
Put a set of muffs on and close your eyes and touch a few full power357 loads off.
Without the flash , bang ,,,you will see(feel) there isn't all that great amount of recoil.
I seen this with shooting two model 29's.
One with 4" barrel,, the other with 8 3/8" barrel.
The longer barrel raised higher in recoil than the shorter barrel with the same loads.
Barrel time !
Same reason a slower moving bullets hits higher on target than the same bullet at higher vel.
Put a set of muffs on and close your eyes and touch a few full power357 loads off.
Without the flash , bang ,,,you will see(feel) there isn't all that great amount of recoil.
I seen this with shooting two model 29's.
One with 4" barrel,, the other with 8 3/8" barrel.
The longer barrel raised higher in recoil than the shorter barrel with the same loads.
Barrel time !
Same reason a slower moving bullets hits higher on target than the same bullet at higher vel.
Shooter 9
Member
Shot a box of .357 ammo thru an LCR .357. It was a blast.
One (1) round, once, in a 649 - to say I'd done it and check it off the bucket list. But for daily carry, I use standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158g lead HPs (which actually go just as fast as the same bullet from a Remington +P box.) That's plenty for these old wrists and hands, and I can stand to shoot more than one or two rounds at a practice session.
Well sir, a telephone call to the Police.
Who won't show up untill everything is over.
I could write a lot about this, but it will end with me getting banned
and i don't want that
I have been carrying and shooting J-magnums with 357 Magnum ammunition in it since 1996.
Between myself and students, well over 10,000 rounds (probably over 15k) of full power 357 Magnum have been through my snubbies during the past 2 decades. My 340PD passed the 5,000 round mark by itself several years ago. Many students have used it to shoot the off duty qualifying course with full magnum ammunition.
Personally, I never consider several hundred extra foot pounds of energy to be useless.
My J-magnums have never seen a round of 38 Special put through them. If I want to shoot 38, I will buy a 38.
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I chose "only in all steel guns" for the poll but that's not accurate. I carry either +P .38s or .357s in the lightweights, but they don't get shot all that much. Usually only until they pull skin off and bleeding commences. So last thing at the range on such days.
Most shooting is done with 9mm out of the 940. But it gets carried with +P+ ammo, which chronos about the same as 158gr 357s. It's not much better recoil-wise, but muzzle flash is less, and usually won't make the skin come off the hand as quickly.
Most shooting is done with 9mm out of the 940. But it gets carried with +P+ ammo, which chronos about the same as 158gr 357s. It's not much better recoil-wise, but muzzle flash is less, and usually won't make the skin come off the hand as quickly.
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wildenout
Member
I like to throw 1 in the 5 just to give people a shock 
HCA
Member
Yep, .357 mags in my 686+ 2.5" snubbie. I shoot Hornady 125 gr Critical Defense as well as their 125 gr XTP rounds. I find this gun to be more comfortable to shoot than my M&P40. This little 686+ is the perfect EDC for me. Slip it in a Sticky holster or a Galco Combat Master (depending on what I am wearing), and go. I don't find the recoil to be much of an issue.
at_liberty
Member
at_liberty
Member
A number of replies have parsed the word "useless", when it would be less of a quibble to consider the full house rounds as "adding little value" in a gun too short-barreled to achieve a velocity worth the blast and recoil.
RobsTV
Member
And the "too short barreled to achieve a velocity worth the blast and recoil" has already been proven a myth by replies here from those that chrono'd. Plenty of extra added velocity over even 38 +P, while recoil is not a problem or unusual for the gain the added velocity the full house loads bring.
Sorry I left out the same day 125gr 38spl (+P?) results in same J-Frame
885 fps, pf=111, 217 ft/lbs
and full house 125gr 357
1394 fps, pf=174, 539 ft/lbs
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hangnoose
Member
HAVE I ?
SURE, do I make a regular habit of it, HECK NO. Why punish yourself and loosen up a gun, unless it is a well made (all steel) gun. The Ruger sp 101, speed/security 6's come to mind. My S&W 640 no dash & airwt snubs are 38 only. For INFREQUENT practice to remain proficient for s/d, YES, but not too many rounds. With my hands now, I'd need ice packs on my wrists/ my hands would be numb for days.
SURE, do I make a regular habit of it, HECK NO. Why punish yourself and loosen up a gun, unless it is a well made (all steel) gun. The Ruger sp 101, speed/security 6's come to mind. My S&W 640 no dash & airwt snubs are 38 only. For INFREQUENT practice to remain proficient for s/d, YES, but not too many rounds. With my hands now, I'd need ice packs on my wrists/ my hands would be numb for days.
As the above post shows, there has been little discussion and lots of speculation that is not based on experience or data.
uncleted327
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It sounds like the OP really doesn't like shooting magnums and is trying to convince others, or perhaps just himself, that the 38 is then somehow a better choice for everyone. 357s will outperform 38s every time, regardless of barrel length, that's just a fact of physics. I am not recoil sensitive in the least and can shoot magnums out of anything chambered for them all day long, accurately and rapidly. If somebody doesn't like, or can't control a magnum then maybe a 38 is a better choice for YOU, but that doesn't mean it's not a compromise over the magnums and it certainly doesn't mean someone else can't shoot a magnum just as fast and accurately as you shoot a 38, or even more so.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
Only 38 we have is dads.
All mine are 357 and that is all I load them with.
Only 38 we have is dads.
All mine are 357 and that is all I load them with.
turnejm
Member
357 Mags for a Snubbie?
First Question: Yes
I have a couple of Model 60's with 3 inch barrels. Wouldn't hesitate to shoot 158gr. hollow point whatevers in it!
With the model 360M&P, it is kept in the house with Federal Hydra-Shoks all the time!
Second Question: Yes
Hell Yea! Hand Cannon!
First Question: Yes
I have a couple of Model 60's with 3 inch barrels. Wouldn't hesitate to shoot 158gr. hollow point whatevers in it!
With the model 360M&P, it is kept in the house with Federal Hydra-Shoks all the time!
Second Question: Yes
Hell Yea! Hand Cannon!
My hand and wrist....
My hand and wrist protest when and after firing full house loads from a 6" 'L' frame.
My hand and wrist protest when and after firing full house loads from a 6" 'L' frame.
lhump1961
US Veteran
IMHO it's all about the shooter not the gun. My K's shoot full 158g .357's just fine but with a fair amount of recoil so I don't shoot them often...the 2 1/2" 686 recoils perhaps a bit less with full loads. I hand load to suit myself and what I feel I can shoot accurately and follow up quickly. A persons hand size plays a role as well. I'm in with the "shot placement trumps ballistics" group so that usually dictates my load. I don't shoot .38's in my .357's much just 'cause I don't like the short burn ring.
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I just did a post about this very subject last week:
BUFFALO BORE .38 SPECIAL VS .357 MAGNUM FROM A SNUBBY
It is in the Ammo section if you are interested.
I would certainly recommend that serious Magnum revolver carriers either buy or borrow a descent Chronograph to compare the difference between let's say Buffalo Bore LSWCHP +P .38 Special (OR SIMILAR) and compare that to .357 Magnums. Out of 2 inch barrels there is little to no difference in velocities of most 158 grain .357 Magnums I have tested compared to the +P BB .38 Special. In some instances the BB +p is actually faster!
The downside to .357 Magnums which were designed for 6" and longer barrels is so great from a 2" Snubby, that it just makes no sense to me especially since there is little to no upside from shooting .357's from a 2" barrel.
BUFFALO BORE .38 SPECIAL VS .357 MAGNUM FROM A SNUBBY
It is in the Ammo section if you are interested.
I would certainly recommend that serious Magnum revolver carriers either buy or borrow a descent Chronograph to compare the difference between let's say Buffalo Bore LSWCHP +P .38 Special (OR SIMILAR) and compare that to .357 Magnums. Out of 2 inch barrels there is little to no difference in velocities of most 158 grain .357 Magnums I have tested compared to the +P BB .38 Special. In some instances the BB +p is actually faster!
The downside to .357 Magnums which were designed for 6" and longer barrels is so great from a 2" Snubby, that it just makes no sense to me especially since there is little to no upside from shooting .357's from a 2" barrel.
RobsTV
Member
I think the key with your test only confirms 158 gr bullets need longer barrels to get the heavy weights moving. 125gr bullets are suggested more often with short barrels, and as shown from quality chrono testing, these lighter bullets in full house magnum loads do indeed achieve a large velocity increase over 38's in same short barrel. A short barrel will always be handicapped, but if you can find a way to reduce that handicap, such as shooting lighter weight, higher velocity magnum loads, that seems like the smart thing to do. The knock down power of 125gr magnums, 1394 fps, 539 ft/lbs, exceeds the knockdown power of the 158gr magnum's at 1000fps, 351 ft/lbs in same short barreled gun. Some K-Frames had an issue with the higher velocity 125gr magnums, but this is not a problem with J-Frames rated for 357 magnums. Full house loads and the gun "should" out last generations of shooters.
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mg357
Absent Comrade
I fired two rounds of .357 through my uncles ruger sp101 .357 magnum revolver I will NEVER do it again! it kicked like an angry mule!
at_liberty
Member
.DonD
Member
Don't know how this poll works, automatically I assume.
Well...nothing about the numbers makes sense. The poll says 140 voters yet there are 145 responses. The percentage numbers simply don't add up mathematically as well. Bizarre. Don
Well...nothing about the numbers makes sense. The poll says 140 voters yet there are 145 responses. The percentage numbers simply don't add up mathematically as well. Bizarre. Don
DonD
Member
he
Seriously?? It simply isn't that harsh. Sometimes if you want serious performance you have some price to pay but the SP101 simply isn't abusive. Don
Seriously?? It simply isn't that harsh. Sometimes if you want serious performance you have some price to pay but the SP101 simply isn't abusive. Don
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