How many of you instructors teach this?

[Protected One]

I attended a "spoken word" poetic reading tonight. The seating was set up theatre style on a stair-stepped floor. There were about 60 people in the audience. Just before the lights were dimmed I noticed that the guy two rows in front of me was having great difficulty keeping his gun concealed. He was wearing a vest as his cover garment and the gun keep flopping and coming from under the vest. He untucked his shirt in an effort to help, but that only worked until he twisted the wrong way and the gun was (unbeknown to him) exposed once more. I don't think anyone but me noticed though. When he went to stand up the gun hooked under the back of the folding chair! I felt for the guy and found myself wondering if I should discreetly ask him if he was wearing a gun belt, but decided against it.

This got me to wondering: How many of you firearms instructors who teach classes for people getting concealed pistol licenses actually TELL THEM ABOUT GETTING A GUN BELT? And for those of you who are NOT instructors, did you learn it in class or on your own?

My instructor did mention:
Don't buy a cheap gun
Buy extra magazines
Use only premium jacketed hollow point defensive ammo
.38 or 9mm was his "floor" on defensive carry caliber.....

HE MADE NO MENTION OF GUNBELTS OR BUYING GOOD HOLSTERS! That knowledge was acquired on my own in the course of reading and further training.

Perhaps you all might want to add that to your course?

 

[galena]

This is a good point. I talk to my students about good and proper holsters but I never have specifically talked about the belt. I will be updating my lesson plans to include the subject.

 

[Rangerpat]

I don't understand people who spend $400 on a handgun and then carry it in a $30 nylon holster with a $15 belt from Walmart.

When my son received his CC license I bought him a IWB holster made by Bell Charter Oaks (forum member) and a Wilderness Tactical belt.

 

[Electraclyde]

Learned about hosters and belts the hard way, trial and error. Only in recent years have we had more than one place to shop and/or ask. The one we did have only wanted to sell Glocks and nylon holsters.
No mention of holsters or belts in CPL class.

 

[RobzGuns]

My CHL Instructor had a whole section on 'Dressing to Conceal'. He talked about different types of Holsters, Belts and Deep conceal wear (thunderwear & Holster Ts, etc). He emphasized how a good belt makes IWB/OWB much easier to control.

For demonstrative purposes, he had more than 6 pistols/revolvers concealed on various parts of his body. His attire was Office Casual Slacks & Polo.

 

[OKFC05]

I include holsters AND BELTS, including level 2 holsters for those that wish to open carry, and have examples of the basic types.
My NRA training counselor set a good example in conducting his NRA instructor courses.

Having taught for the Air Force and in college classes, I was well versed in the value of lesson plans, and how to use them. For example, the Oklahoma CLEET lesson plan includes carry gear as a specific topic, so why do some instructors NOT include it?

Unfortunately, I have met some great "shooting experts" who toss the lesson plan in their bag and impress the audience with their skills, which are considerable, but fail to convey needed information to the class. Some of them are very popular and highly paid.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I don't understand people who spend $400 on a handgun and then carry it in a $30 nylon holster with a $15 belt from Walmart.

Not to hijack ..... but just to say there are so many options out there today because of the internet (and this Forum) vs. when I started carrying in 78.

Took about 6 months or a year to find a Bianchi B12 for evenings and weekends..... one of the reasons I carried a PPK IWB (read about Milt Sparks in some "Gun Rag" and took a chance) was the difficulty in finding a good dress gun-belt to use with a suit.

 

[shawn mccarver]

You didn't say in what position the gent was carrying, but as it got stuck under the chair back, I am envisioning a small of back or behind the hip arrangement with the pants worn way too low, thereby allowing the gun barrel to conform to the "natural curvature" which would cause the top end of the weapon to "ride out" from the body instead of flat when standing.

The belt is important, but the guy needs to get pants with a longer waist, or pull his existing pants up. Having a heavier belt while still wearing the weapon too low on the waist will not really fix the problem.

Dress for carry, not for fashion. That lesson is at least as important as the issue of a proper belt.

 

[federali]

The Handgun "System."

I always taught that the handgun, extra ammunition, belt, holster, handcuffs (if applicable) and outer and under garments are all part of a team I called the handgun system. Everything must be working correctly to maximize safety, comfort, handgun security against loss or an attempted takeaway and concealment.

This became evident when we engaged in handgun retention exercises based upon the Lindell Method. We had several students whose worn and cracked dress belts broke at the buckle during a takeaway maneuver.

As others have correctly said, don't buy a $600.00 gun, a $100.00 holster, then sling it on an imitation leather belt.

Why undergarments? It's simple. When wearing an IWB holster, you don't want the gun directly against your skin, which is uncomfortable and allows acidic perspiration to attack the gun. Avoid abbreviated undergarments when using an IWB holster.

Mexican carry? Don't even think about it in my class.

 

[Aticus]

I don't understand people who spend $400 on a handgun and then carry it in a $30 nylon holster with a $15 belt from Walmart.

When my son received his CC license I bought him a IWB holster made by Bell Charter Oaks (forum member) and a Wilderness Tactical belt.

A lot of people who take a CCW class are not "gun nuts". they are not as knowledgeable as you are. They have to be taught these things. I've been through many holsters and several belts. If the ccw instructor doesn't help who will?

Having work in an LGS I found that you have a tendency to assume everyone who comes in looking for a self defense gun knows what they need and has or will get the proper accessories. You have too many regulars who do. That is mostly not the case and you miss a chance to help in that regard. I know I've been guilty of that offense and for that I apologize.

Also most people are very reluctant to spend something over $100 to carry a gun they're only going to carry occasionally. Again they have to be taught. I've sold several holster by simply showing the customer what I was carrying.

This can all be summed up by saying that the average ccw student needs to be taught and that teaching starts with the instructor and/or his assistant. I've been through two ccw classes. The first instructor mentioned nothing about holster or belts. The second did.

Rant over.

 

[Protected One]

I don't understand people who spend $400 on a handgun and then carry it in a $30 nylon holster with a $15 belt from Walmart.

If they don't know better and nobody teaches them, how can they be blamed?

 

[ContinentalOp]

I've taken a few classes over the years and can't recall any instructors discussing proper holsters and/or belts. Of course, most of those courses were shooting/qualification courses that didn't require drawing and weren't specifically for concealed carry.

One of the last classes I took was for my carry permit a few years ago. That instructor did mention things to consider, like belt carry can be faster than pocket carry, and demonstrated concealment by revealing he was carrying a belt gun, 2 pocket guns, and an ankle gun, but nothing specifically about how to select carry gear. Everything I learned about "carry systems" came from gun magazines and, more recently, the interwebs.

 

[Big Cholla]

I was one of the first accreditated CCW Instructors in Clark County, NV. I was a LEO Firearms Instructor prior to instructing civilians. I told every class that they had to determine how they were going to tote and make available their choice of handguns. I showed every class various holsters, belts and concealment purses. My recommendation always was to support the holster with a very well built belt. My recommendation was/is a double layer leather belt sewn together, not glued. I required them to come to the qualification shooting exercise with a proper holster. I understand that today they allow the shooter to walk to the firing line with the handgun in hand and to load out of pockets. I never would have allowed that. My wife and I practice drawing/presentation from exactly how we carry concealed. She draws from a very well make concealment purse and I draw from a IWB concealed holster. My belt is a double layer cowhide that was double sewn and is 1 3/4" wide. There are good well made substantial belts out there that look good even when worn on dress pants. Anything else is a waste of time and can be an endangerment. ...........

 

[Tony twist]

A good belt is a necessity for training and carry purposes alike. IMO it doesn't need to be a "gun belt" but you want the thickest leather/hide belt you can find that's at least 1.5 inch. I use a 20 dollar belt from tractor supply. Good way to check a belt is just fasten it hold it up and see how much it flexs stiffer the better.

 

[Protected One]

You didn't say in what position the gent was carrying, but as it got stuck under the chair back, I am envisioning a small of back or behind the hip arrangement with the pants worn way too low, thereby allowing the gun barrel to conform to the "natural curvature" which would cause the top end of the weapon to "ride out" from the body instead of flat when standing.

The belt is important, but the guy needs to get pants with a longer waist, or pull his existing pants up. Having a heavier belt while still wearing the weapon too low on the waist will not really fix the problem.

Dress for carry, not for fashion. That lesson is at least as important as the issue of a proper belt.

He was carrying at 5:00, and it was an all black revolver. Beyond that I can't say the model number. He "appeared" to have his belt high enough, but the grip was ENTIRELY outside of his untucked shirt AND fleece vest.

My guess is that he was wearing a standard width dress belt (1")...and the holster just rotated on it.

Obviously, he hadn't been taught the importance of a good carry "system". My purpose in starting this thread was to address the issue and hopefully inspire instructors to revise their lesson plans if it doesn't include holsters AND belts.

 

[Rastoff]

If they don't know better and nobody teaches them, how can they be blamed?

This is one reason I became an instructor; none of the classes I went to taught this stuff. Not to mention marksmanship, or gun fit, or defensive shooting or...

I required them to come to the qualification shooting exercise with a proper holster. I understand that today they allow the shooter to walk to the firing line with the handgun in hand and to load out of pockets. I never would have allowed that.

I understand the logic behind this, but how do you make it work? I mean, I spend at least an hour talking about holsters. There are certain criteria that a holster must have in order to be used for carry. How will they know what to buy if they haven't been through the class yet?

I ask all my students to bring a holster. However, if they don't have one, I tell them not to buy one until they go through the class. Why have them buy the wrong holster just to turn around and get another? We can run a safe range even if they don't have a holster. No shooting from the holster unless they've been taught by me or a school I recognize.

When I started, I wasn't teaching about the belt. I have since corrected the error of my ways. Now I demonstrate the importance of a good belt.

Further, this is the only area where a person really can spend a little and still get a good belt. I use the Uncle Mike's Reinforced Instructor's belt. These can be had for $25-$35 depending on the sale you find. Even though they are inexpensive, they are not cheaply made. They have a polymer insert that makes them the stiffest belt I've ever used.

The timing of this thread is interesting. I have a Fusion Type E belt sitting on my desk as I type this. Ordered it on line and never even tried it on. Flimsier than a wet noodle. I spent about $45 for it. Whatever you do, DON'T BUY THIS BELT! It's absolutely **** for concealed carry. I thought I'd try something different. Yeah, why fix what ain't broke? Live and learn.

 

[Protected One]

The timing of this thread is interesting. I have a Fusion Type E belt sitting on my desk as I type this. Ordered it on line and never even tried it on. Flimsier than a wet noodle. I spent about $45 for it. Whatever you do, DON'T BUY THIS BELT! It's absolutely **** for concealed carry. I thought I'd try something different. Yeah, why fix what ain't broke? Live and learn.

Thanks for the tip on the belt. Not that I'm in the market for one, but it's nice to know what to avoid. I have two belts for carry; one black (a Galco), and one brown (5.11 Tactical). Both had to be suitable for dress wear, so canvas or instructors belts are "out". When I first started carrying, not knowing any better, I had a browning hi power on my regular dress belt. Can you imagine what that must have felt like?

 

[ironhead7544]

A proper holster and belt is almost as important as the weapon.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I don't understand people who spend $400 on a handgun and then carry it in a $30 nylon holster with a $15 belt from Walmart.

When my son received his CC license I bought him a IWB holster made by Bell Charter Oaks (forum member) and a Wilderness Tactical belt.

Guys;

The day is near perhaps, when all you may have to select in the way of concealment holsters are made from recycled soda bottles, foam rubber, nylon and offer absurdly oversized platforms that purport to be "comfortable" and "concealable". They are inexpensive, no doubt, they are in stock and ready to ship, they are convenient too. Roll over to Wally World or the local gun shop for a quick fix. They will usually hold the weapon, no doubt there too, most often.

I offer no criticism. I do offer skepticism. I will match any holster I make (or those of a dozen other custom leather makers) against any of that cheap trade. Priceline is the bottom line, and we now see traditional factory leather holster makers cashing in on that and adjusting to market demand for plastics and synthetics for polymer frame hi cap pistols and revolvers.

I believe there will always be a market for fine quality gunleather but the lousy economy has championed cheaper alternatives. Just my view.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This is a good point. I talk to my students about good and proper holsters but I never have specifically talked about the belt. I will be updating my lesson plans to include the subject.

I agree - it's time I made an issue out of this.