How many of you instructors teach this?

[DevilDog72]

When I started carrying a gun no one talked about what belt or what holster. I learned by trial and error. My EDC belt is a Kydex reinforced leather belt and have worn it almost every day since I bought it. I have also purchased gun belts from Eaglestroker, Snubby Fan.Tucker and Byrd and Don Hume.


I also learned to buy good quality holsters. My EDC holster is a Roy's original, Lobo Gun leather, Enhanced Pancake and it has shouldered the bulk of carry duties for the last 10 plus years. For off the shelf holsters I like Galco and Don Hume.

 

[Plain Old Dave]

We can't, here in Tennessee. The curriculum is clearly defined PowerPoint presentations. Instructors may answer questions during break periods, but revealing a carry gun inadvertently isn't that big a deal in a state with *carry* permits and no legal obligation to conceal the firearm.

Personal opinion- decent quality and some degree of positive retention.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

 

[chief38]

I've always recommended Double Thick Horsehide Gun Belts after buying and using one over the last 15 years. To me there is no equal! While the initial outlay is more than cowhide, they last far and beyond what any Cowhide double leather belt has for me.

Not only is material important the belt width is equally important! While a 1 1/4" wide belt is more than adequate for a Model 60, a mini compact pistol, and even a Colt Detective Special, larger framed guns and OWB holsters need at least 1 1/2" to properly carry the weight over the long term.

Quality Cowhide is great but quality Horsehide is better, IMO.

 

[misswired]

I would have thanked the guy. If I had somehow been roped into squirming through a poetic reading, having that scenario occupy my mind would be a blessing

 

[murphydog]

I'm seeing more people than ever wearing a gun without a proper belt! Did I miss something? Has the price of leather skyrocketed?

In my local area ("permitless carry"), seeing someone with a proper belt or holster, or sometimes 'any' belt or holster, is unusual. This is not a criticism but my observation about how some may take carry a little too casually, perhaps.

 

[Dogbone44Spl]

I carry on a Bigfoot gun belt, It has a steel liner to keep it stiff. I've never tried taking it thru the airport. Also most of my holsters are from Bullard leather in Texas. Most times you get what you pay for.

 

[keith44spl]

As an instructor, yes I have recommended gunbelts.

I use em myself daily.

This one's today's rig.

.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have one too & think it would sorta strangle your insides if you tried to rappel with it. Better to have it & not need it???

The main use I had for it outside of just an every day gun belt was hooking into the rail where students dropped off while teaching high angle rescue. I did rappel down about 50 feet with one once, just to see how it works. The main issue is the belt ripping through your belt loops as it follows its inevitable path to your armpits. The loops did not survive, but I figured they wouldn't. The belt survived quite nicely, and I still wear it today. That's why we call it an "emergency . . . "

 

[scout789]

I learned about gun belts from reading forums addressing defensive carry. This one and others. Buying my first good quality gun belt was one of the most enlightening experiences I have ever had. It immediately converted me to OWB carry almost exclusively. So much easier and more comfortable than IWB or pocket carry which had been the norm up to that point. Also much quicker and easier to access.
My instructer(s) have always addressed different methods of concealment/carry, but I don't recall anything about equipment.

 

[rednichols]

I was pleased to see that his is an old thread! Otherwise, here we go again.

No one knows what a 'good gun belt' is. Those who think they do, would have to define it as 'wide as possible, thick, stiff, with a sturdy buckle'.

More important is that this definition of a 'good' gun belt only came into being because of really bad holster design: top heavy. A thin, soft belt will readily carry your loaded pistol inside a very-well-designed holster if it's at least wide enough; which I would define as 1.5" minimum. I test my holsters on a personally-acquired, certified Walmart belt of that width.

The 'barrel band' belts that the cognoscenti recommend came from the competition pistoleros of the '70s who were dialing it all back from the wide buscadero belts of Fast Draw and Mountain Men shoots. For them it was a compromise! But for daily use it's a ridiculous concept.

Don't get a 'good' gunbelt. Get a good holster, which for concealment at least includes low center-of-gravity (so NOT a Bianchi Askins Avenger).

 

[Protected One]

I was pleased to see that his is an old thread! Otherwise, here we go again.

No one knows what a 'good gun belt' is. Those who think they do, would have to define it as 'wide as possible, thick, stiff, with a sturdy buckle'.

More important is that this definition of a 'good' gun belt only came into being because of really bad holster design: top heavy. A thin, soft belt will readily carry your loaded pistol inside a very-well-designed holster if it's at least wide enough; which I would define as 1.5" minimum. I test my holsters on a personally-acquired, certified Walmart belt of that width.

The 'barrel band' belts that the cognoscenti recommend came from the competition pistoleros of the '70s who were dialing it all back from the wide buscadero belts of Fast Draw and Mountain Men shoots. For them it was a compromise! But for daily use it's a ridiculous concept.

Don't get a 'good' gunbelt. Get a good holster, which for concealment at least includes low center-of-gravity (so NOT a Bianchi Askins Avenger).

Keep in mind that though us long-time forum members may have seen most topics covered in a thread or two, there are constantly NEW MEMBERS joining that benefit from seeing some of these "old threads".

 

[Rastoff]

Don't get a 'good' gunbelt. Get a good holster, which for concealment at least includes low center-of-gravity (so NOT a Bianchi Askins Avenger).

I'm really surprised, and disappointed, to hear you say that. Obviously a good holster is paramount, but the belt is an integral part and should be considered just like the holster.

A good belt without a good holster, will be a disappointment.
A good holster without a good belt, will be a disappointment.
A good holster with a good belt, will be a wonderful experience.

 

[TheHobbyist]

I think the bottom line is awareness (of this topic). I agree with the OP's thought and hope that this thread does inspire instructors to address the topic--should they have not done so otherwise.

A professional or hobbyist in another discipline may think it is common knowledge (mechanic suggesting preventative maintenance, doctor suggesting care regimens, and so on). Fact is, most of the people even who are into firearms do not take this into consideration. I agree with the others that suggest it is a 'system'. Each according to their ability, finances, and preferences, sure. It is an interplay of all these things, but yet there is also the situational awareness and emotional intelligence aspects too. Heaven forbid something were to happen, a person likely only has seconds to make sound decisions that will impact the rest of their lives and others. Stop to think on that for a moment (rhetorically).

 

[rednichols]

I'm really surprised, and disappointed, to hear you say that. Obviously a good holster is paramount, but the belt is an integral part and should be considered just like the holster.

A good belt without a good holster, will be a disappointment.
A good holster without a good belt, will be a disappointment.
A good holster with a good belt, will be a wonderful experience.

We'll agree to disagree. No one can define a 'good' belt or a 'good' holster without arguments ensuing . But none of us can argue with what you or anyone else personally likes, either.

If you look again at what I said, I test my designs against a cheap Walmart belt that still has its tag on it. If the prototype doesn't carry well on that belt, it doesn't get produced. Recall that I'm not a maker, but a designer; so my creations are always for mass-production not personal satisfaction. I.e., I don't design one-off 'custom' holsters; all the parts are interchangeable for mass production.

I do play around a bit with ramping up into production; these are for a dealer:





Kamuran Aker once told me, 'your designs put my company on the map'. They did the same for Bianchi and Galco and De Santis and Assault Systems; and didn't hurt 20 more companies any, either.

Nothing to be disappointed in there. 'Good' belts don't exist, only poor holsters on stiff belts. Been at this more than a half century and was there while we were making all the mistakes throughout the industry.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Having purchased two DeSantis E25 belts from Midway recently and wearing them daily on both my work (duty) trousers and my "good casual" pants, even without a holster or pistol, I can honestly say that the difference a good belt makes is astounding.

The belt "holds" over the full width, not just a narrow part as my issue leather one does. My pants no longer need to be "adjusted" every time I get out of the patrol car and my shirts remain tucked in. They also have not stretched as thinner leather belts do after a few days of wear.

Something tells me I will be wearing a "proper" gunbelt simply as a trouser support system for as long as I am able to do so and never go back to thin leather.

 

[Protected One]

I am bringing this topic back around for the benefit of any NEW members who are instructors, or new members that just need to know.

 

[growr]

When I took a class from Ken Hackathorn he certainly addressed this topic.
His advice was " If you can fold it in half vertically it is NOT sturdy enough.

Fortunately for me, my Carhartt work belt did the job and then some....AND it was not super expensive.

Maybe it will work for others as well....

Randy

 

[rednichols]

All of the notion of 'get a good gunbelt' is nonsense because the makers can't define it; my friend Hackathorn's explanation is not clear to me as you've shown it.

A good gunbelt only needs to be rigid across its WIDTH; and that's only necessary on a poorly designed holster; which most of the old models from the 1970s are. 1970s gunleather evolved from the fast draw gunleather of the 1960s; and it evolved from the leatherslaps of the 1950s. All these makers were ex-saddle makers (Ojala did not make his own gunleather) notably Andy Anderson. So saddle leather was used, it was double thick and stitched, and everyone agreed what a 'good gunbelt was'. But it was also the '70s so the belts were a minimum of 1-3/4" wide for fashion reasons including the loops on jeans. The trousers belt was quite literally a cinch strap and old Skeeter even called them that.

Fast forward to today, and every gunleather maker who tells his buyers to buy a good gunbelt is having trouble keeping his designs stable on the belt. Kanaley at Sparks is one of the worst about this and simply refuses to learn better. But we know from a half century of gunleather engineering since Milt Sparks first copied Andy's designs and then Nelson's, that center of gravity controls the relevance of the belt.

Make the holster too high, as John Bianchi did on the Askins Avenger, then perpetuated by Sparks, and the belt will have to be quite stiff along its LENGTH to hold up the top-heavy pistol. Drop the center of gravity to the ideal height -- on an auto even Paris Theodore, who turns out to have been quite the amateur, knew that was with the mag button clearing the top edge of the belt; on a revolver it's with the cylinder overlying the width of the belt -- and one can use any belt that fills the width of the holster's tunnel for it.

Andy's gunbelt sets were not carried at the waist; they were carried on a 2-1/2" wide gunbelt around the pelvis above the hips. Their center of gravity was so low that they even had tie down straps. When Jeff Cooper mandated that the pistols be carried up at the waist on a trousers belt (the Texas Rangers had made that decision 70 years before) those same makers just didn't stop and think -- why do the belts need to be so stiff? These were not holster people; all three of them wanted to be actors. So they just kept cranking them out the old way and the oldies of that era, including Ken, didn't ever stop to think about it, either. Can't teach an old dog new tricks it seems?

 

[SixGunSancho]

The two dominant and controlling rules of firearms self-defense are:

Rule One: The only known way of surviving a gunfight is avoidance. A gunfight, be definition, means a bad guy wants a good guy dead.

Rule Two: If Rule One is unavoidable, don't get shot. That means a good gun cannot remain within a threat's sight picture.

I do agree that a good quality gun belt facilitates ease of carry. But gun belts to not always complement social affairs; e.g., formal functions, black tie affairs, etc.

 

[Doc1500]

If they don't know better and nobody teaches them, how can they be blamed?

They can be blamed !
because making the decision to conceal carry a weapon of Destruction should not be taken lightly and every person should do their due diligence to have all the information they can possibly gather to do it right and safely.
There is way more information out there than any one person can possibly read to make the correct decision. JMHO
A good gun belt ? I got mine from Alien Gear very stylish and it has a stainless steel band in between the leather running from the Buckle all the way around to the holes. No leather flop on this belt.