How NOT to do it...

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A voluntary/recommended/subsidized/free supplemental training program would be great. MANDATORY, not so much. It can be a fine line who is ALLOWED the right of self defense & who is not. The old & frail come to mind first.

My 80 year old mother got her concealed carry permit in SD, where there is no training requirement. She called me to ask for a recommendation for a handgun. A S&W model 36 would serve just fine, but instead, I referred her to an instructor in the area for proper training - for both the gun handling, and the use of lethal force.

It's not that mom was opposed to training, she just didn't fully realize that there was more to it than just handgun selection. She qualifies as both old and frail, but proper training still isn't an undue burden. To suggest otherwise is creating a problem that just doesn't exist. To old and frail to get out for training is the same as too old and frail to get out an need a concealed carry permit. No one is restricting what people use in their homes - not even DC at this point.

Based on what I've seen, classes don't prevent stupidity. They don't even seem to slow it down.

It's easy to write events like this off as stupidity, rather than simple ignorance.

I agree with you that some folks are stupid and training just bounces off, but that's not a reason to say all training is useless as many people with normal intelligence who want to carry a gun are woefully ignorant of the law, and do/would benefit from training.

Case is point is a conversation over heard in a gun shop a couple months ago, where concealed carry permit holder #1 recounts that while paying for something in a convenience store, a man reached over his shoulder, grabbed the $20 bill in his hand and ran out the door. Concealed carry permit holder #2 asks why he didn't shoot the guy. #1 says "I didn't think about it". #2 states something to the effect that you should have, be sure to next time.

#1 was very fortunate not to have thought of it, given that:
1) defense of property is not a justification for lethal force in NC;
2) the thief showed no indications of being armed and posed not imminent threat; and
3) even if he had, he was in full retreat out the door before #1 could have drawn his weapon anyway.

Had he shot, we'd have another news article out there a lot like this one.

At this point in the conversation I interrupted and gave an impromptu lesson on the laws pertaining to deadly force and used the above incident as an example of when and why you cannot shoot, and discussed the differences that might have created first what a reasonable person might view as an imminent threat, and thus a justification to shoot that might be sufficient for a jury of your peers not to want to lock you up and throw away the key.

Neither of these guys were stupid, but they had been around a long time, and I suspect they either forgot the key points of their training or more likely their permits pre-dated a training requirement in that area.

We cannot prevent or fix stupid, however we can prevent or fix ignorance.
 
Take him 50 miles out to sea and drop him in the water. If he swims back, OK he can live. Otherwise, he's been punished and we don't have to spend any more money on him.

Only if he has a battleship anchor chained to his legs. :mad:
 
Murder? Possibly. First degree murder? Does anyone posting here know what first degree murder is? [Hint: it varies slightly from state to state.]
I don't know for sure but I think in some states 1st degree murder is only charged when you kill an LEO.
As far as the shooting is concerned, flat out murder. He was mad at the guy because of the argument and murdered him.
The shoplifting candy excuse is about as lame as it gets.
Intentionally shooting someone in back of the head is always going to be murder no matter if a crime was committed or not or what the crime was. The only situation that I can come up with that's defensible is grappling/wrestling with an armed bad guy, or bad guy wrestling your gun from you and and you have to take the first shot you can get, or you shoot and he puts his head where you were aiming.
Just re read the post, didn't say he was shot in the back of the head, none the less, Murder.
 
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I don't know for sure but I think in some states 1st degree murder is only charged when you kill an LEO.
As far as the shooting is concerned, flat out murder. He was mad at the guy because of the argument and murdered him.
The shoplifting candy excuse is about as lame as it gets.
Intentionally shooting someone in back of the head is always going to be murder no matter if a crime was committed or not or what the crime was. The only situation that I can come up with that's defensible is grappling/wrestling with an armed bad guy, or bad guy wrestling your gun from you and and you have to take the first shot you can get, or you shoot and he puts his head where you were aiming.
Just re read the post, didn't say he was shot in the back of the head, none the less, Murder.

Believe you are thinking of Capital Murder.
 
I think we've covered it. :rolleyes:
I also think we've deleted enough political discussion.

and a Reminder of what the rules say-

The following topics are restricted on this Board:
General NEWS links-
very rarely. If you need every news story about every subject every day, hit one or all of the news boards.
Reasonable news links about our military, first responders, or guns might be acceptable.
News concerning political gun issues is acceptable in the 2nd Amendment forum.
This forum does not function as the Internet Newsboard Index.


and-
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