How Short or Long for .223?

[kbm6893]

I’m about to get into reloading .223. My brass is all sized and I’m sorting it. The trim length is listed at 1.750” I have a few so far that are slightly over, like 1.76-1.77. Some are short, like 1.742 or so. A few are dead on at 1.750. Obviously I can’t add any length so how short can I go and still be safe, and how much iver 1.750 so that I shouldn’t even bother trimming it?

 

[kb1903]

223 length

1.760 is max length. Any longer will cause pressure issues as the case will be jammed into chamber and cause tight or failure to close the bolt fully. A little under 1.750 could be OK, but too much will cause excessive stretching of the case when fired and possible case separation. Stick with established norms to stay safe. Cases are cheap, new eyes aren't. Ken

 

[kbm6893]

1.760 is max length. Any longer will cause pressure issues as the case will be jammed into chamber and cause tight or failure to close the bolt fully. A little under 1.750 could be OK, but too much will cause excessive stretching of the case when fired and possible case separation. Stick with established norms to stay safe. Cases are cheap, new eyes aren't. Ken

True. I’ll toss anything under 1.750.

 

[TjB101]

I’ll live with 1.745, but anything shorter gets tossed. Trim anything over .755 to .50 have consistent crimps.

 

[tumbleturn]

The only issue I have had with too long or short brass is on bullets with a cannelure. As long as they can be crimped in the cannelure and maintain COAL I have not had any issues. As for your cases that are too short if there is no cannelure on the bullets the crimp die needs to be adjusted slightly deeper to get a proper crimp.
Mike

 

[kbm6893]

Thanks, guys. I've been reloading for like 7 years but I still stay safe and basic. My dies are all set and locked in and I weigh every charge. Loaded many thousands of pistol rounds with no problem but never a rifle round yet. Some of the advice I get is clearly coming from people with considerably more skills than I have.

 

[BE Mike]

Are you measuring the cases before or after resizing?

 

[kbm6893]

Are you measuring the cases before or after resizing?

After, of course. When I trim they will all be resized before the trimming.

 

[M29since14]

You do not need to worry about a short neck. The round headspaces on a datum mid-way along its shoulder. The danger of a long neck has been explained above. As long as your cases are not sized enough to dangerously move the shoulder back so that it is out of gage, short necks (providing the bullet is held securely) are not a pressure hazard.

As was also mentioned above, if you are crimping, short necks can be a problem in that respect. Lots of people think AR15 rounds must be crimped. Like everything else in life, there is the usual disagreement about that. For plinking ammo, I wouldn’t worry about a case that was 0.010” short. I’d be very concerned about one that was 0.010” long. All this of course, JMHO.

 

[ameridaddy]

Get a case gauge that checks base to shoulder dimension, especially if you will shoot them in an autoloader, and for the autoloader, get a smith to check the chamber with a go/no-go and adjust if necessary. Once the base to shoulder distance is set correctly on your sizing die and produces in spec cases, then you can trim to length.
You don't want to risk a slam fire out of battery with an AR or other autoloader. You can feel an over long cartridge in the bolt handle with a bolt gun, but an autoloader just keeps on chuckin' until kaboom.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

SAAMI lists the range of .223 brass from 1.730" to 1.760". I rarely see brass under 1.735".

 

[BC38]

So is there really any disadvantage to trimming to 1.730 or 1.735?
How does the shorter length contribute to case stretch? I always thought most of the stretch happened between the ejector notch and the shoulder.
Is that incorrect? Does excess air gap between the case mouth and the area where the chamber necks down to the actual bullet bore cause the cases to stretch too?

I want to be able to trim to a minimum (or near minimum) length and reaming the crimps one time and then shoot and reload the cases until they fail. I certainly don't want to have to trim more than once in the lifetime of the case. So, I guess the question is what is the optimum length to trim the brass to only have to do it once?

I suspect that info would be helpful to the OP as well.

 

[kbm6893]

Starting to re-think loading for rifle now. Pistol just seems so much easier and safer. Bringing rifle to gunsmith and checking the chamber before trimming? Go/no go gauges? All I do for pistol is drop powder, seat bullet, and crimp. I’ll do a plunk test when first setting my dies but that’s it. And yes, I would be loading for an AR.

 

[rockquarry]

Unless you suspect a real problem, you needn't have your firearm inspected by a gunsmith for chamber dimensions and you don't need go/ no go gauges. However, an inexpensive case gauge is handy if you want reliable chambering and functioning with your handloaded cartridges in an AR-type gun.

Trim length is not critical as long as it's under the SAAMI maximum length. Trim length, within reasonable parameters, has nothing to do with case-stretching or creating headspace problems. Much of this is basic handloading knowledge that is covered in manuals, especially those that have sections on AR-type guns. The Sierra manual is a good one for such information.

 

[M29since14]

Don’t be discouraged, Kbm6893. What Rockquarry says is all you need to do to turn out reliable ammo for any competently assembled AR15. Read the manuals and give it a try. A maximum cartridge gage will cost around $20. It’s no big deal moneywise, but it is necessary to insure your sizing die is (and remains) correctly adjusted.

I don’t spend much time reloading for AR15s but I find reloading for hunting and varmint rifles very interesting and more enjoyable than cranking the handle on the Dillon to keep me supplied with hundreds of .45 target loads.

 

[Wise_A]

Starting to re-think loading for rifle now. Pistol just seems so much easier and safer. Bringing rifle to gunsmith and checking the chamber before trimming? Go/no go gauges? All I do for pistol is drop powder, seat bullet, and crimp. I’ll do a plunk test when first setting my dies but that’s it. And yes, I would be loading for an AR.

Agree w/ Rockquarry. It's really not that hard, especially if you're just interested in minute-of-beer-can accuracy. But the flip side is that plinking ammo is really cheap if you can order in bulk and online.

 

[BE Mike]

So is there really any disadvantage to trimming to 1.730 or 1.735?
How does the shorter length contribute to case stretch? I always thought most of the stretch happened between the ejector notch and the shoulder.
Is that incorrect? Does excess air gap between the case mouth and the area where the chamber necks down to the actual bullet bore cause the cases to stretch too?

I want to be able to trim to a minimum (or near minimum) length and reaming the crimps one time and then shoot and reload the cases until they fail. I certainly don't want to have to trim more than once in the lifetime of the case. So, I guess the question is what is the optimum length to trim the brass to only have to do it once?

I suspect that info would be helpful to the OP as well.

When I dabbled into High Power Rifle competition, I was advised to trim to 1.745" after resizing. I was told that I would never, in all likelihood, have to trim those same cases again. That, along with a couple of proven loads which were passed along, got me very accurate ammo.

 

[rockquarry]

Unless you're shooting a benchrest gun capable of groups well under a half-inch, it's doubtful you'll see any difference in accuracy using brass that is not all trimmed to the same length. I don't crimp AR ammo, but I see nothing wrong with doing so if that's your choice, just don't overdo it.

I only have experience with three ARs, but the two with scope sights are capable of shooting five-shot groups of an inch or less straight-out-of-the-box unmodified with well-developed handloads. Using all the same brass, experimenting with several powders and several primers helps, but you may not want to go that far with load development.

If accuracy is not a big deal, the cheap bulk "plinking" ammo mentioned by Wise A is fine. My experience with a wide variety of this ammo is that it always chambers and fires, and some of it is reasonably accurate, particularly for 100 yard shooting.

Some enjoy handloading as a hobby in itself, others don't and that's okay.

 

[BC38]

When I dabbled into High Power Rifle competition, I was advised to trim to 1.745" after resizing. I was told that I would never, in all likelihood, have to trim those same cases again. That, along with a couple of proven loads which were passed along, got me very accurate ammo.

Perfect. That makes sense to me. 0.015" under maximum length should give plenty of room for stretch and still staying within spec. over the course of several reloadings and firings.

1.745" will be my target length then.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Just for another view on reloading 223. I started loading with a Lee Loader in 1970. A friend loaded me his Lyman Spar-T turret press and I was off! In 1984 Dillion went customer direct with sales of the RL450 (1 month after I bought mine from a gun shop for a $100 more than their direct price!)

After the initial set up I loaded a 5000 round batch of 9mm to feed my MAC-10. The next batch was 20,000 rounds of 223! These are the "Wrong" things I did to my ammo:

1) Mixed military brass with some commercial thrown in.

2) Full Length sized with a Small Base die.

3) Primer crimps removed by swaging, not reaming!

4) loaded on a progressive press.

5) powder dropped from a measurer, not weighed

6) primers were from 6 or 8 different lot numbers (CCI Sm Rifle Mag, was the Lyman recommended at that time)

7) my bullets were Winchester 55 grain FMJ, surplus from the US Army going to the 62 grain steel core bullet. Meant for 1-12 twist not for 1-9 that my AR has!

Last) I Just dumped the ammo in water proof containers and stacked it in the unheated/un A/Ced barn, for up to 32 years.

None of this ammo was put in a chamber gauge, or trimmed, or babied in any way.

I still have a few thousand left, About 10 years ago I gave 3000 to one of my sons for his then new AR.

What kind of mess did I end up with? The gun I had then was a Mini-14 Stainless: I got 5" at 100 from a rest and scoped. That is poor in my opinion!

I then tried a blue Mini-14 and got 2" at 100 yards. That is marginal in my opinion!

A friend shot some from his Cooper 21 and got 1/4" groups At 100 yards. That is great in my opinion!

I got a 1996 Bushmaster AR-15, shot the same ammo, off the same rest at the same range and targets, I got 1/4" groups!!! I now have a Cooper 21 also and get 1/4" and sometimes smaller groups with this misloaded, poorly stored, mish mash ammo.

What is the moral to this story? A good load, reasonable care, and minor attention to detail (And no advice from the internet!) got me ammo that is still good 35 years later!

BTW retail price for 223 FMJ back then was $20/100 on sale. My reloads cost 8.5 cents each or $8.50/100! including buying used brass. The entire batch cost $1,700.00 That much new ammo would has cost $4000 or a little less for bulk buying! I saved about $2000 to 2300! That buys a lot of stuff even today! But it also cost a month and a half of Saturdays, Sundays & free evenings!

I kept telling my wife; "Look at all the money I'm saving!" She stayed with me anyway (next May will be 42 years!)

Ivan