How to become a certified armorer?

[Cotis]

I have worked on S&W revolvers for a long time now, but chaos at my current full time job has me thinking about doing some different things in life that will make me truly happy. Running a repair shop working on all manner S&W seems like it would be fun to me.

What is involved with obtaining all the required training? Anyone with experiences to share?

Thank you

 

[robertrwalsh]

It is not so easy unless you are already working in the field, such as a police armorer. There are three very respectable schools, part of community colleges thru the country. One is Susanville, CA. One in Rochester, NY. and one in Oklahoma. Or at least there were the last time I checked a few years back. I can personally vouch for the one in Susanville. Of course you can also try to get on with an established operations rather like an old-style apprenticeship program and work your way up and in from there. Good luck.

 

[Protocall_Design]

It is good to be aware of the old adage - "The best way to end up with a million dollars doing gunsmithing is to start with 5 million and dive in."

A few astute business men have done well, but many more have gone broke. It's a tough go with low margins and high restrictions. It can be done but takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice. Just learning the trade and buying the tools is a challenge. You would probably be best served to get on with an established shop and work for them, for a few years at least. Then you will be in a better position to go on your own if you want to do that. Best wishes for success.

I might be a certifiable S&W Revo armorer, but so far no psychiatrist has come along to verify one way or the other...

 

[chief38]

I have never attended an Armorer School nor have I ever had anyone show me the ropes. After having a famous Gun Smith ruin two Revolvers I decided I'd never again send out a firearm, with the exception for something like Hot Bluing which I don't do. When I did send two firearms out to be re-blued I disassembled them, removed all the furniture and just sent the metal parts out - I was the one who refinished the wood while the metal was being re-blued and reassembled everything when the bluing was done.

I taught myself how to disassemble, diagnose, repair and reassemble the guns that interested me and that I owned. I have fabricated some parts when they were not available and did own 99% of the tools needed. I did this out of need, desire and not ever wanting to have another gun ruined or not fixed correctly. Although this might seem like I am bragging (I am not), I'd put my skills, diagnoses and repairs up against any so called Gunsmith anytime. Not saying I am a Doug Turnbull - I am not, however mechanically I have become pretty darn good. Not because I am so smart, so fantastically skilled, or what ever, just because I am not doing it as a living, I have no time restraints, I will not skimp on materials, tools or research and I am a bit OCD and very persistent.

I've been at this for 4+ decades now and only work on my own stuff. If a repair takes me 1 day or 5 weeks waiting for or having to make a part, then so be it. I am not in a rush! The job gets done correctly and up to my personal standards. I am one hell of a picky guy!

I learned and am still learning when the need arises and I absolutely love it! There are some guns I have never worked on simply because I do not own any and have no interest in. On the other hand I have worked on some very complicated guns successfully - and that gives me a great deal of satisfaction. Just to honestly disclose, I am still not a professional Gunsmith and I am not looking to become one either and I still have many things to learn. As long as I can do what is necessary to repair and fix my own stuff, I am quite content, but the learning process has taken me 40+ years and I am still learning. For someone who is interested in becoming a professional, then an Armorer's course, Guns Smithing School or apprenticeship would be the way to go. If you want a certificate hanging on your wall, again get certified. For me a certificate is meaningless.

I can tell you one thing that I know 100%....... A person who works on a certain type of gun constantly and is not always working on hundreds of different types, styles and brands is probably more adept and skilled than someone who works on every type of gun here, there and everywhere. Same think with specialty Surgeons, Mechanics, etc.

I am not telling anyone here what and how to do this, I can only state what worked for me. I do have one thing inside me that can not be bought, read, or wished for and that is the desire and passion. So as long as you are honest with yourself, know your skill and mechanical abilities, and sheer desire, you will know how to approach this What ever you wind up doing - ENJOY THE JOURNEY AND LEARNING EXPERIENCE ALONG THE WAY!

 

[NewLiberty]

S&W is pretty strict on admissions to their armorer courses, generally only open to LE/Mil. https://www.smith-wesson.com/defense/technical-services So, getting certified by S&W can be difficult.

There are a number of different types of other courses available that may cover S&W revolvers. There are the brick and mortar colleges, and then the online/correspondence courses. Also, look into the NRA summer gunsmithing courses.

The margins in the firearms industry in general are pretty tight, so having multiple revenue streams is vital. You will need a FFL to be working on guns for profit.

 

[Krogen]

There's not much I can add to the wisdom above. But, I'll weigh in anyway . . . A lack of wisdom hasn't ever stopped me!

We've all heard that if you have a passion for your occupation, it's not really work. It's a labor of love and hopefully financially rewarding. Problem is that sometimes making a hobby or pastime into an occupation takes the fun out of it. It becomes work.

I enjoyed electronics as a kid. It was a hobby. Then I became an electrical engineer. A rewarding, lucrative career yes, but my electronics hobby vanished. It was no longer fun to dabble at home when I spent most of my waking hours on my career.

So, I'll say this: If you make a career out of working on firearms, you may find the casual enjoyment goes away. I say "may" because I know several accomplished gunsmiths at the gun club who do enjoy shooting, competition and hunting. There are no absolutes, I suppose. But, be wary.

 

[Cotis]

Chief38,
I appreciate the insight. You and myself sound very similar. I started working on my own firearms after several botched jobs from supposedly reputable gunsmiths. My skills have increased over the years (as they should) to the point where working on S&W revolvers is pretty simple for me. I haven't tackled barrel fittings and sight machining (yet) but it is on my list.

Some of the best work I have done in the past several years was the repair and completion of a 1927 German combination rifle (BBF) in 20 gauge over 6.5x52r (25-35 win). Stock was cracked at tang and sideplates, Greener safety wasn't engaging properly, needed a new buttplate (buffalo horn one was worm holed and falling off) and biggest job was a missing scope with claw mounts. I sourced several sets of AKAH claw mounts from EBay Germany along with a nice Zeiss Jena 4x scope with integral bottom rail. It took me at least 8 hours of filing and hand fitting but the scope with fitted claw mount snaps on and off like butter and holds zero perfectly.

 

[Shotguncoach]

There is a tremendous amount of wisdom and experience being shared in this thread. I started a similar journey towards the end of last year.

My friends and I are all approaching retirement and working towards setting ourselves up to have fun and maybe make a little money on the side after we get done with the grind. Tools and knowledge are being acquired, buildings are being built, and legal hurdles are being hurdled all with the intent of not making a living from it. It's a lot easier to do if you don't depend on it to pay the mortgage.

If you do want to make a living fixing guns, I strongly suggest talking to every 'smith you can and try to get into an apprenticeship with a 'smith that wants to retire in 5-10 years. It's much easier to take over an established business than it is to start a new one.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Usually an Armorer works one platform. For example, the Glock Armorer only works on Glocks and the training is a 8 hour class. The PD I retired from has designated Armorers.

Now a Gunsmith usually has a two year apprenticeship or program so they can work on handguns, rifles and shotguns.

 

[ken158]

You have had some good information presented and I will throw in my experiences and thoughts. I went to the S&W, Sig & HK armorers schools through my department as the dept armorer. The S&W was the longest and the hardest school and that was due to the revolver work. Pretty much all the auto gun work at all the schools involved identify the problem, remove and replace the affected part. These are LEO guns and new parts were preferred to tinkering than other "smithing" methods like are done on revolvers. I enjoyed and still enjoy working on handguns but no way would I want to need to make a living doing it. I even had a home based FFL and thought I could open a shop in my retirement years but looking at the big picture and seeing the work from a dealer perspective, there is no way to survive without a major financial investment. Going to a gunsmithing school to learn the trade and working as an apprentice would be my recommendation.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Running a repair shop working on all manner S&W seems like it would be fun to me.

Anyone with experiences to share?

S&W used to have Authorized Repair Services with local Gunsmiths until the 1980s. It was always nice to know the Gunsmiths who were fixing your revolvers.

Not everyone has the aptitude to do trade type work. In school we had "Shop" classes and not everyone had the skills to be a "A" student.

 

[Toyman]

In December 2021 S&W conducted an Armorers school for J and K frame revolver over a 3 day period. I attended the armorers school at S&W factory in fall 1979.
I was able to attend the last day of the training and observed what was being taught.
After class I talked to the instructor for some time. He said he had been hired 3 times by S&W and fired twice. 2weeks after the class he was fired again.
AT S&W meeting in Glendale, AZ I spoke with the head of hand gun production and asked about the armorers school and he advised it would be taught by out side vendors, not factory employees of the factory.

 

[tomrkba]

The prerequisite for attending a Smith & Wesson Academy class is that you are Active Law Enforcement (LE), Military, or Armed Security Service and acquiring these skills and certification to work on your department/unit/company firearms.

Start your own security company and get certified by the state. One small contract and you're good to go. Heck, make an order for some M&P's and get the classes thrown in as part of the deal.

 

[steelslaver]

There is a reason their is a lack of good gunsmiths.

Tooling and equipment cost good money, parts cost good money, good work takes time. There isn't any good money in being a gunsmith.

Now days it is is almost as bad as being in appliance repair.

A good pipe welder makes over $40 an hour.

 

[NewLiberty]

A few other things to keep in mind as you look into it:

If you start advertising "gunsmithing services", the general public will want you to do all sorts of things. Only taking jobs you are comfortable doing, and have the proper tools to do, is key. Turning down jobs is better that damaging guns. Knowing other smiths in the area and what they work on is valuable. If someone calls the shop and wants something done that I am not going to do, I have a list of other shops in the area to refer them to, and know what those other shops specialize in.

Also, figuring out which tasks are worth taking the time to do is important. There are some services I offer that are very high profit margin for the time needed to do them. From a business perspective, I like doing those more than projects that turn into time sucks.

Once you get past the basic tools, acquire tools as you need them for jobs. Nothing worse than buying all the tools you think you will need, and then watching them collect dust.

Getting some sort of formal education can help with acquiring business insurance as well.

Gunsmithing is one of several revenue streams I have in the business, but it certainly isn't one that I could live off of on its own. The gun industry in general tends to be capital intensive, and low profit margin, but there are ways to make it work without taking on massive piles of debt.

 

[chief38]

If you decide to provide these services professionally and will be forming/creating a business, you will need an FFL as someone previously stated. To protect your personal property and assets you should consider incorporation, or the formation of an LLC (Limited Liability Company) if LLC's are available in your state.

You should also consider purchasing liability insurance for you and the business. A substantial amount of liability coverage will be needed to cover you and the business should you ever be named in a lawsuit.

To be a professional Gunsmith, Plumber, Electrician, or any professional occupation you would have to be nuts to not have liability insurance and not just a minimal amount! Doing anything at all in the gun world today is an invitation for a lawsuit! Even if what you did had absolutely nothing at all to do with a circumstance, if you touch the gun, you will be sued. This is because the courts, politicians, lawyers, etc. see guns, the people who work on them, the manufacturers, the accessory manufacturers, etc. as an easy mark to collect on.

Hence the reason I have never become a professional and only work on my own stuff. Aside from which, I love doing what I do as a hobby and for enjoyment - I'd never want to turn it into "work"! When I am done with a project or repair, I know it is done correctly, safely and permanently and do not have to worry or rely on anyone else.

 

[dogdoc]

Do something that makes good money so you have plenty to spend on guns and gun smithing or whatever your hobby is. If you turn your hobby into work , it may not be fun anymore.

 

[steelslaver]

While I do small jobs for a few people on the forum, I wouldn't dream of trying to make a living on money as a smith. First making my hobby a job would suck a lot of the fun out of it, if I make a mistake on one of mine it is mine and I could live with it or figure a work around. Not so a customer's part especially a frame. Another thing is some people wouldn't be happy if ya hung em with a new rope. Lots of nit pickers in the gun community. While I do like a really nice gun, I wouldn't reject one with a small cosmetic defect
Lots will. Life is short
Enjoy it