Hydraulic Buffer?

[flyer91]

Hey Grover ...... I sincerely hope you do not think I'm dissing the hydraulic buffer.
I have no experience with it, and can see some significant advantages to it over a spring.
After all there should be much less resonance in it versus a spring and solid buffer.

My comments are directed at the common conception that a stronger buffer/spring means slower cyclic rates but better recoil control, and that's just not necessarily correct, nor is the result of dong that going to have an effect on only one thing.

As it's said ...... the proof is in the pudding, and that's really all that counts.
It's just that having a recipe for the pudding can make that proof.

I'm just waiting to get static for offering the "Artillery hold" in an AR discussion group.
But then .... people that can't see past it not being advice as to how to hold an AR and just can't connect the dots, are not the target audience ...........

I have a Range Rifle in stainless.
Not as good a shooter as my ARs, but fun to shoot ..... and in Kommiefornia, might be all I'm left with after the next meeting of our Democrat super majority Senate and Assembly.
The Republicans here have no numerical means to oppose 'anything' they want to pass.
So ........ my mini might get a better "place of honor" in my safe.

 

[flyer91]

Grover ...... it just occurred to me that I should press you to try the "laser dot when going to battery" experiment.
I know you have an AR vise and the results compared to a standard buffer it would be very interesting to me.

The reason is ....... (to my knowledge) the only way to reduce the "going to battery slam effect" with standard buffer parts requires a lightened bolt carrier.
Although I've seen some from Spikes (semi-auto versions that the back section is turned down on a lathe and drilled like swiss cheese) at the price of a carrier these days ..... versus a hydraulic buffer, and if it works as well or better ...... I'd prefer the buffer.

Also another big advantage that I could see with the buffer is ...... that unlike a spring you could have dual rates for compression and rebound.
Heck ... you could even have variable rates for times that you change your load ..... useful if it helped to do what a person is trying to tweak.
Maybe even adjustable variable rates ...... in both directions.

So ....... I'm hoping you'll try the dot thing ...... solid buffer versus hydraulic.
If the rebound rate is reduced over that of a similar strength spring-solid, it might negate the need for a lighter carrier .... and the tail chasing that doing that starts with other gas/buffer system tweaks.

Like I said before, it's all going to be a compromise between speed and accuracy, and being able to economically tweak for the optimum sounds interesting, if not promising.

 

[JaPes]

Hey Grover ...... I sincerely hope you do not think I'm dissing the hydraulic buffer.
I have no experience with it, and can see some significant advantages to it over a spring.

Flyer91, would you like to be added to the pass along list after Maddmax?

 

[flyer91]

That would be great!!
How do I go about getting on the list?

Thanks,

Gary

 

[JaPes]

You're in.

It goes from Grover...to Bill...to Maddmax...then to you. The person sending PM's the receiver for their mailing address. When the last tester is done, it comes back to me. I don't care how long the pass around takes, just that the hydraulic buffer finds it's way back to me.

 

[oneyeopn]

Thanks again John
Flyer...I will set it up tonight while the mrs is bowling. That really is a good test. I will see what that difference is.

 

[flyer91]

Great!! I look forward to getting to play with it.

I just checked and I have two different Aps on my iPod touch (also work with the iPhone) that may provide a dynamic (albeit non-calibrated, comparative only) measurement for the difference between a stock and the hydraulic buffers set-ups.

One is actually a seismometer App, and I think I might be able to record the total waveform of the weapons movement if it doesn't drive it off scale.
The other is actually a dynomometer App for recording acceleration and G forces when driving.
I also have an App called "Shot timer Pro" that works well enough to keep me from paying for a real shot timer.
So ....... if I set up an experiment using these I'm pretty sure I can get at least comparative results if not actual quantitative/calibrated results.

The Apps are called Seismometer (I think this is still free via the iStore) and Dynolicious (about $10 via the iStore) and the Shot Timer Pro is also about $10 via the iStore.
I include it here in case any of the listees have an iPod Touch or an iPhone, and are interested in trying this approach to testing, in parallel with a subjective feel for how it's working.

I'd start with attaching the iPod to my shoulder to dampening the shock, but might just strap my old gen 1 to the butt stock of my ARs to see if it can take the shock, and provide less comparative/more dynamic results.

I use to have an actual Bourns Instruments calibrated piezo accelerometer, that attached to my recording O-scope, and it's probably still in my "mad scientist stuff" but I'll not bet on me finding it any time in this life ........

Thanks guys, this will be fun and educational!!

 

[zip777]

You're in.

It goes from Grover...to Bill...to Maddmax...then to you. The person sending PM's the receiver for their mailing address. When the last tester is done, it comes back to me. I don't care how long the pass around takes, just that the hydraulic buffer finds it's way back to me.

I'd sure like to get on the end of that list...only because I don't get to shoot quite as often as these guys... Yeah I'd love to check it out John. Just wait until the requests stop. Thanks man....and thanks for doing this.

 

[JaPes]

Ok Zip. You're in after Flyer.

This is getting good.

 

[zip777]

Ok Zip. You're in after Flyer.

This is getting good.

Cool but if others chime in place them ahead of me. I can usually only get out every 2 or 3 weeks. Don't want to hold up progress!

 

[Maddmax]

Cool but if others chime in place them ahead of me. I can usually only get out every 2 or 3 weeks. Don't want to hold up progress!

I wouldn't worry about the timing and progress too much just yet. We're just getting started "playing" with it. You could work out perfect for timing. It's like a new toy to check out,only we have to send it back

 

[zip777]

That's true I was just thinking if others who shoot more want a shot they should go first.

 

[flyer91]

zip777, I just sent you a PM about the buffer.
I'll be getting it from Maddmax, and will be the one sending it on to you.

Yeah ...... this is a great idea and I both applaud and thank you JaPes for doing it!!

 

[oneyeopn]

I kinda had to worm my way into shooting and testing. Since the infection is back in my leg, the Mrs has me kinda locked down. But I got my new to me gun that I had to shoot and of course gotta put some rounds through the Sport. I am glad to be back to a Sport upper, I never remembered that danged old dustcover anyway. I really didnt and the Forward Assist was just an ugly lump on my rifle. Now to find the right Buttstock at the right price!

 

[Maddmax]

Ok Zip. You're in after Flyer.

This is getting good.

I just sent you a PM.

 

[flyer91]

Flyer...I will set it up tonight while the mrs is bowling. That really is a good test. I will see what that difference is.

Yeah ..... maybe that are using different internal valving on compression and rebound.

I need to ask JaPes if it's OK with him to use it with my Beowulf upper.
The Beowulf has been designed with a gas system and chamber pressure by Alexander Arms at the US Army Radford Arsenal in Virgina, to be fully functional with a stock M4 buffer system, so it should be good to go.
But if you would prefer I don't do it (due the greatly increased recoil) I won't ......... even though the actual recoil in an AR happens (as I've said before) while the bolt is locked ...... otherwise the Beowulf would certainly need a big, bad, ........ "Lance Armstong, steroid riddled, Iron Man contestant" buffer system of the world!!!

 

[BadKarmaZeroSix]

When i originally started this topic thread, i never guessed it would be so popular, or end up so informative...im glad that everyone is putting in their .02, and the practical real-world reviews coming from the chain-mailing of the actual product is a great resource...i have to admit, i actually got mine in the mail yesterday...bro found a place down near him having a super-sale of sorts and couldnt beat the price (65 bucks)...it will prob be a few weeks again before i can try it out, but im still gonna be watchin the thread carefully...also bought a spring that was recommended to me by a contractor friend of mine who runs the ar-restor in his work weapon, it should be here soon (jp polished silent spring i think...dont have the order right here)...keep the thread goin guys, this may become a sticky!

 

[JaPes]

Yeah ..... maybe that are using different internal valving on compression and rebound.

I need to ask JaPes if it's OK with him to use it with my Beowulf upper.
The Beowulf has been designed with a gas system and chamber pressure by Alexander Arms at the US Army Radford Arsenal in Virgina, to be fully functional with a stock M4 buffer system, so it should be good to go.
But if you would prefer I don't do it (due the greatly increased recoil) I won't ......... even though the actual recoil in an AR happens (as I've said before) while the bolt is locked ...... otherwise the Beowulf would certainly need a big, bad, ........ "Lance Armstong, steroid riddled, Iron Man contestant" buffer system of the world!!!

Sure, no problem. The more testing that gets done, the better for the sub-forum.

If the buffer fails/breaks, let me know and I'll contact the manufacturer. I wonder if they'd like to know about this thread...

 

[LbulletM]

If the buffer fails/breaks, let me know and I'll contact the manufacturer.

I hope you guys wear the hell out of it. I'm really interested in one, but I want to know if it has the durability to be worth the price.

ps. Anyone have a blackout upper they can try it on?

 

[oneyeopn]

I read in a review of a H2 buffer that the writer was supposedly replacing one that failed. He was in the process of it but for the time being and was really happy with the H2 buffer but it wasnt near as smooth.