Hypothetically speaking
- Thread starter Jaco1234
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Very open ended question. There are several powders available that can be loaded for both applications. What powder are you thinking about?
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cmj8591
Member
Most rifle powders are too slow burning to get enough of it into a pistol case to make it work right. That's an open ended answer to an open ended question. I load IMR4227 in 44mag that gets shot in both a carbine and a pistol. IMR4227 was originally developed for the 30 carbine so I guess you could say it's a rifle powder. There are powders that are designed for reduced loads in a rifle cartridge that overlap into pistol use but I don't think that is really what you are asking. If you said shotgun powder, now that's a different story. Bottom line is that if you stick to the manuals, you will stay out of trouble.
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What's been said above. Most load manuals have separate data in the rifle sections to cover load data for handgun cartridges in rifles. If there's no load data for a given powder from either the powder manufacturer or the usual loading manuals, DON'T DO IT!
STORMINORMAN
Member
Well, the WIN 296 & H110 "twins" certainly reside in both camps, and IMR 4227 is also listed in 300 Blackout, so I'd opine that it also qualifies as a "rifle powder"...
Cheers!
Cheers!
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I have used IMR4227 in a 38 & 357 load in my revolvers but due to the low fps
I would never shot that load out of a long rifle barrel because I know I would
be asking for big problems.
I would never shot that load out of a long rifle barrel because I know I would
be asking for big problems.
cmj8591
Member
The handgun loads for rifles that you see in your manual are the same as the handgun loads except the data was collected using a longer barrel. My 4227, 44 mag loads are quite accurate and seem to be very consistent. I do end up with a lot of un burned powder in my handgun. More than when I shoot it in my carbine. You can't drive a 240 grain with it as fast as 296 or h110, but those don't shoot as well for me in my rifles. The 4227 is a good compromise.
Rogeronimo
Member
AA5744 may be what you're looking for, perhaps not.
rockquarry
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I use a good bit of 5744 for reduced loads using cast bullets in a number of rifle cartridges. Good powder for that purpose.
At least thirty years ago, I found in some gun magazine load data using 5744 in the .45 Colt. I had to try it. I seldom shoot jacketed bullets in any handgun, but had some Hornady HPs of about 250 grs., I think. Surprisingly, a near max. or max. load shot quite accurately. 5744 would not be my first choice for any handgun cartridge but it worked well for me, at least in one load.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Ed: A 158gr XTP@ 1600+ fps out of an 18" barrel is a dangerously low velocity...?
Seems pretty good to me: how fast does it need to be?
Cheers!
DeplorabusUnum
Member
Ed: A 158gr XTP@ 1600+ fps out of an 18" barrel is a dangerously low velocity...?
Seems pretty good to me: how fast does it need to be?
Cheers!
I agree. 158 gr XTP bullets loaded in .357 cases over IMR4227 in my Henry rifle is a perfect match. It's actually slightly slower burning than H110.
Ed: A 158gr XTP@ 1600+ fps out of an 18" barrel is a dangerously low velocity...?
Seems pretty good to me: how fast does it need to be?
Cheers!
with my 686 6" and IMR4227 powder..............
a 38 case with a f100 primer with 11.0 grs gave me 840fps
a 357 case with 15 grs with a 158 JSP gave me 1062fps but
I also got a face full of "Blow back" and a cut on my cheek from copper chavings.
I sent the revolver in to S&W for a check up.
DWalt
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It Is not unusual at all to use fast handgun and shotshell propellants for reduced rifle loads. Unique is very good for such purposes. Faster rifle propellants such as 4227, 2400, and H110 are used by many reloaders for magnum handgun loads, and sometimes even not-so-Magnum handgun loads. Back in my early reloading days, I used 2400 and 4227 in .44 and .357 magnum and also .44 Special and .45 ACP. Not the best but they worked.
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FWIW, when I experimented with IMR 4227 in .357 handguns decades ago, I had the unburned powder/low velocity issues reported above. But that was with standard SP primers. OTOH, with the .44 Magnum and magnum primers, no issues. As noted, somewhat less velocity than 2400 (and I guess H110/WW296) but much tighter groups. Still use 4227 for my full power .44 loads.
At least back when, the magnum pistol primers were suggested for best ignition of the stick type powders.
At least back when, the magnum pistol primers were suggested for best ignition of the stick type powders.
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divartydad
Member
I use 5744 for my lever action 44 mag.
Uraldriver
Member
I remember John Ross advocating rifle powders in the 500 smith and Wesson. He recommended loads that filled the case to the base of the bullet being used. The 500 operates at pretty high pressure and I tried a few loads that shot great and ran around 1100 fps with a 440 grain bullet which is all my hand wanted.
My thinking in posting this thread is, using a slower burning powder in a longer barrel would produce higher muzzle velocities with not a necessarily higher chamber pressure. It sounds like this fits with some of your experiences.
Thanks for answering, and thanks for the safety warnings.
Thanks for answering, and thanks for the safety warnings.
GypsmJim
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I have a snubby that had trouble hitting the side of the barn. I tried load after load, based on book data and personal recommendations, and could never dial it in.
Finally, I tried IMR 4227 with 158 gr Keith SWC and now she shoots quite well. That is a published load.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
With a snub nose revolver trigger control is paramount. Any slight movement will pull the bullet off target.
Short story:
I got my first J frame. I went to the range, loaded up 5 rounds and shot from 10 yards. I went up to the target to see how tight the group was, well, not 1 hole in the target, not one! I knew I needed a lot of work...
Dry firing cured the problem. I bought a set of snap caps and pulled the trigger hundreds of times. Since there is no recoil you can see exactly what the revolver is doing when you pull the trigger. During every commercial on the TV I took aim at the thermostat on the wall and practiced trigger control. It's amazing how much I was moving the revolver in the beginning.
MANDATORY RULE! Never ever any live ammo in the same room when dry firing. Also, always shoot double action to practice true trigger control.
You end up shooting very well after a while and the added benefit, a smother trigger because of all the trigger pulls lol.
Good luck, be safe and have fun...
rosewood
Member
This is a true statement where "pistol/rifle" powders ranges overlap. When you get to even slower rifle powders, you get to a point that even with a full case of powder, your pressure will be too low to be useful and you may end up with squib loads.
I too have used powders on the slower end of a given cartridge specifically for pistol cartridges in longer barrels and you sometimes get better velocity. I also have done the reverse and specifically chose faster burning powders for a given cartridge to reduce muzzle blast and flash in shorter barrels (i.e. TC contender). However, those were all published loads for the given cartridge. This is the beauty of handloading. You can tailor make your loads that the factory doesn't make.
Rosewood
rosewood
Member
No telling how many times I have killed my thermostat and my alarm motion detector in the living room.
STORMINORMAN
Member
No telling how many times I have killed my thermostat and my alarm motion detector in the living room.
I have found that certain spotlight bulbs are excellent targets for dry fire practice with a laser sight: you can readily see how your trigger pull can draw your sights off the target (or, not?), as well as practice shooting from other than normal alignment (i.e., from the waist without using the front or rear sight, etc.).
Much le$$ expen$ive than other commercial laser targeting products!
Cheers!
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
OK, since we are talking trigger control, the ultimate test is placing a nickel on the top of the revolver and pulling the trigger double action. When the nickel no longer falls off the revolver you are an "expert."
BTW, it's harder than it sounds.
Remember... Never any live ammo in the same room when you do dry fire practice. Snap caps work very well and are inexpensive.
BTW, it's harder than it sounds.
Remember... Never any live ammo in the same room when you do dry fire practice. Snap caps work very well and are inexpensive.
