I bought the wrong gun, now what?

If the light weight of the 642 is the issue, then look at a couple of the small framed steel revolvers like the S&W M60, M649 or M640, the Ruger SP101 or the Kimber K6s. While slightly heavier to carry, they should be much more comfortable to shoot when matched up with good grips and some of the lighter weight bullet low recoil ammo.
 
The 640-1 is a fun gun and easy to shoot with 38's. When shooting 357's it throws a mean fire ball and fire rings. [emoji16]
a3ea15f523dcff0aead5cb7b1d9e34a4.jpg
1bef1bf2913c10aec424c4bf4f32fbd5.jpg
c7db831d38cb770f43ee69b2199a5017.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Never seen a fire ring before. That is too cool.
 
Smith & Wesson produces several guns in the same configuration as the 642, but in different calibers.

Before giving up I would do the following:
-Shoot with 148 grain wadcutters
-Try some larger, more padded grips
-Ask a professional to watch you shoot and see if maybe your grip style/position is part of the problem

If those fail you can try a lighter recoiling caliber. Smith & Wesson makes several other Lightweight Centennials:
-Model 43c - in 22 Long Rifle - 8 shots of Self Defense 22 LR
-Model 351c - in 22 Magnum - 7 shots of Self Defense 22 Mag (I own and carry this one).
-There are several that were produced in 32 caliber of various flavors (Mag, H&R mag, ect).

While some may say that the 22 & 22 Mag aren't enough for Self Defense, they are unwilling to stand in front of me and absorb even one round from either. There are several companies producing Self Defense rounds in 22LR and 22Mag.

Good luck in your search.
 
Small lite guns recoil more than bigger heavier guns......

Your 642 is a great gun to carry a lot and shoot a little.
Try practicing/carrying with light 148gr wadcutters..... shot placement is king and it will make a .35" hole!

Two options:
Get a steel J-frame revolver.... same size but a bit heavier ... 60,640
Get a 2 inch K-frame .... bit bigger and heavier; 6 shots..... my wife's gun!
 
I put the Pachmayr Diamond Pros on my little j-frames. They really absorb the recoil better than any grips I have used. Hornady also I think makes a low recoil carry load for the 38 special that might help.
 
Last edited:
Are you only interested in revolvers or you open to striker fire guns as well for CCL?

Not familiar with the term “striker fire guns.” I think revolvers are more reliable and one less thing to worry about.

If you want to keep the 642, try some different larger Grips. I have Ruger LCP II, fun Gun to shoot. Bottom line is - Try Before You Buy!

I have the extended CT grips on the 642. I thought the longer grip would help, but so far hasn’t. DIL as Ruger LCP, I just don’t think that gun is for me. I wish I could try before I buy. I held a lot of guns, but no way to fire any of them. Most rental guns are Semi auto.

If you want to stick with the J-Frame, try to find an all steel model... I believe that the 649 has been discontinued, but, you can find one used... Also, the model 640 has been on my "Wants" list for quite some time...

Also, consider jumping up to a K-Frame... The Model 10 is possibly the ultimate all-around firearm...

Will check those out.

Have you considered using lighter ammo? In my opinion you should build your routine around a gun that you shoot best. A 4" 686 doesn't fit on your night stand?

Why are you convinced that you need such a tiny gun?

I didn’t consider different ammo, just bought what they have at the range., which is 38 spl Lead 158 GR SWC

The 4” 686 is kept on the nightstand.

I’m no longer convinced I need a tiny gun. When I talk to ppl I hear “my wife carries a so and so. “ Most of those so and sos are j-frame, or Ruger LCP. So I took my cue from there.

You didn't mention what style of CT grips you have, but the most expensive version (the CT-405) are very well cushioned. Those or another larger set of rubber grips, and starting out with the lightest loads possible and working your way up the power scale, may help.

My Grips are CT LG-305. $330 They are rubber and have the extended grip


Thanks for all of the help and knowledge sharing. Before I go spend another $800+ on a gun I’ll try working my way up with some of these ideas. The optimum would be to try the gun first but not many ppl I know even care for revolvers, let alone own one. Thanks again!
 
At 21 oz and steel........... my M49 J frame has a lot less recoil than a 642.

Have you tried Hornady's 90 gr poly tip SD ammo out for recoil, yet ?

Last chance is the standard 148 WC or standard target 158 Lwc design
before you try a one pc Rubber Houge grip to cut the sting & recoil down
that is caused by the metal backstrap on your revolver.

Revolvers are nice but a pistol might solve your problem, also.

Good luck.
 
A steel 357 J frame is 3 ounces heavier than the steel 38 J frame (and 8? ounces heavier than your 642).

With the extra weight and using rubber grips and reduced recoil ammo, I would think you’d be fine... and it’s still basically the gun you liked.

So, a 357 640, some Hogues, and a box of non-+P FBI loads could be in your future.
 
Find yourself a steel J frame S&W Model 36 or Model 60 stainless. They are both excellent revolvers with extra weight to tame that snappy recoil. My mother is 68 years old and loves her vintage stainless Rossi/Interarms M88 .38 Spl which is a copy of a S&W model 60. Avoid the airweight/lightweight guns if you are recoil sensitive. Use standard pressure defense rounds such as Hornady 158 Gr. XTP. My mother carries this ammo choice and has no issues with it. She started out with a S&W 642 and had a hard time handling the recoil from the airweight frame. She has carried this combo for 10+ years and has the confidence to deploy it on a threat.
 
Last edited:
Yet another vote for trying the Hogue tamer grip. It makes an amazing difference, if you can live with the size. (I couldn't.) Dirt cheap.

Second suggestion trade it for a 43c. Zero recoil, cheap practice, and if you shoot somebody with 8 Stingers they'll know it.

Good luck.
 
The 686 3" is a heavy weight at 36.8 ounces unloaded for EDC. A carry gun should be one you feel confident shooting and at ease carrying and concealing so you take it with you rather than leaving it at home.

I had a bias against pistols and favored revolvers until I learned that they can be unforgiving too. When a revolver malfunctions, you are in deep doo-doo.

I have a Walther PPS40 that punishes my hand after one mag, so I can appreciate how you feel about the light weight 642 CT hurting your hand. I limit shooting my PPS40 to one mag when I take it to the range.

Beware of developing a dreaded "flinch" by continuing to use a gun you feel is a bad fit for you.

The American Rifleman sponsored a shoot for women to determine what handgun they found best for themselves.

Here are the results...

Right For You: Ladies Pistol Project 3 Results | An Official Journal Of The NRA

Good luck finding the best fit for you, and enjoy your range times.
 
Last edited:
Your where I was years ago when hubby and I first retired. Trying to figure out this important new skill is surprisingly complicated. I took two group classes and three private range classes, as well as purchased four completely different carry guns, before I found what worked the best for me.
Suggest you put your location down in your bio, since some members might be able to offer more assistance.
Good luck.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk
 
I should have mentioned ammunition, too. There is a big difference in recoil in a .38 Special based on the bullet weight of the ammunition. Definitely investigate this before buying another weapon - and possibly a Hogue Tamer grip. The Tamer is a good design, IMO, if a bit bulky, but not too bad in that department. Very inexpensive to tinker with these things compared to a new gun. Good luck!
 
Marshall Tom and I are of very similar minds.

I also frequently see and hear local gun shop staff, instructors and various self appointed experts give epically bad advice on what people should carry, particularly to women.

An alloy frame J frame revolver like the 642 is close to the last hand handgun I’d recommend to a fairly new shooter for self defense.

If someone had a 642 and wanted to use it, I’d start by discussing ammunition options. A .38+P 125 gr or 135 gr load will probably have objectionable recoil, but there are some other options. Hornady makes a 90 gr standard pressure .38 Special low recoil load and Federal also offers a standard pressure low recoil load. You can also just use a light target load. The velocity will be down around 650 fps and it won’t expand, but it’s going to work just fine the vast majority of the time.

Let’s discuss what matters and what doesn’t.

1) Way too many people focus on self defense cartridge with some, certain minimum level of performance. That’s a flawed approach for a couple reasons:

The vast majority of defensive handgun uses don’t involve actually firing the hand gun. The data is a little hard to find on this as many uses of this type are not reported. They cover a broad range:

- An armed citizen using good SA and identifying an assailant while they are still at a distance, and / or not responding with the expected level of fear. For most successful criminals losing the element of surprise and encountering a victim who isn’t displaying the expected amount of fear are red flags that usually prompt a decision to just choose an easier target.

- An armed citizen who reaches for and or draws their handgun to ward off an attack. Again, most successful criminals don’t want to get shot and they will stop doing what ever it is that is about to result in the, getting shot. Realizing they have just accosted an armed citizen who is fixing to shoot them is again enough to convince the assailant that they need to be some where else right now. In that case you may not even have time to get the handgun out of the holster before the assailant flees and the imminent threat evaporates.

- In much rarer cases the would be victim actually gets the gun drawn and fires at the assailant. Even if the would be victim misses the assailant isn’t likely to stay around.

This is also pretty much where incident reporting *might* occur. It still might not happen depending on the circumstances.

(This of course assumes the assailant doesn’t know the victim, as that’s a whole different issue and if someone is in a relationship where that’s a problem, they need to just leave as a gun isn’t going to solve that, at least until you’ve left or booted the assailant out and gotten a restraining order. If someone is in that post restraining order situation and their ex isn’t the type to abide by it, then we need to talk about a more substantial weapon and self defense plan.)

- if an armed citizen actually shoots an assailant, about half the time the assailant will stop the assault even when the wound itself isn’t incapacitating. Getting shot sucks and most people with more or less intact cognitive functions are going to rationalize along these lines:

“Oh darn…I’ve been shot! Getting shot really sucks! I don’t want to get shot anymore, so I going to either run away or surrender.”

Again that kind of psychological stop happens about half the time when defensive handgun use progresses far enough that the assailant is actually shot.

The other half that require multiple hits to stop the assailant are more likely to involve an assailant who is on something, emotionally charged, or in some other way functioning in a diminished capacity.

That half of the already very small subset of defensive handgun uses is where the cartridge finally becomes a factor.

Even then, there’s a strong argument that someone rapidly delivering all 7 rounds of .32 ACP from a PPK to the center of the assailant’s torso may be a lot more effective than someone delivering just two peripheral hits with even a .44 Magnum.

In short, don’t get hung up on the cartridge. Choose a cartridge that you can shoot proficiently.


2) Pistol or revolver doesn’t really matter. Neither does magazine capacity. As noted above, most defensive uses of a handgun don’t involve actual shots being fired. I’ll also suggest that actually having to fire already represents a failure in SA. (But if an imminent threat exists and you have no other option, don’t hesitate.) In the vast majority of armed citizen self defense shoots it’ll be over in done in 5 rounds or less, fired at 5 yards or less in 5 seconds or less. A revolver or single stack semi auto pistol will get it done just fine.

3) Size matters.

You can’t beat physics and light handguns will be more unpleasant to shoot and slower to get back on target than heavy handguns, when all other things are equal.

Let’s say you are shooting a 158 gr .38+P load at 800 fps in a 16 oz 642.

Charge Weight: 10.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 920.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 1.0 lb Bullet Weight: 158.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 24.8 ft/s Recoil Energy: 9.5 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 0.9 lb•s

Now let’s shoot the same load in a 36 oz 3” Model 66:

Charge Weight: 10.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 800.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 2.2 lb Bullet Weight: 158.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 11.0ft/s Recoil Energy: 4.2 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 0.8 lb•s

The recoil impulse is the same (same bullet and charge weight at the same velocity), but due to the greater mass of the Model 66, the recoil velocity and recoil energy are less than half of the values for the 642.

Lighter bullets also equate to less recoil, in most cases. Let’s look at the Model 66 again but with a 125 gr .38 +P load at 875 fps:

Charge Weight: 10.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 875.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 2.2 lb Bullet Weight: 125.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 9.9 ft/s Recoil Energy: 3.4 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 0.7 lb•s

We again see a significant reduction in recoil on the order of 10% for recoil velocity and 20% for recoil energy.

Let’s also look at lower recoil loads like the standard pressure .38 Special 90 gr Hornady FTX at 900 fps:

Charge Weight: 10.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 900.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 2.2 lb Bullet Weight: 90.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 8.1 ft/s Recoil Energy: 2.3 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 0.6 lb•s

Again we see an even more significant reduction in recoil with an additional 20% reduction in recoil velocity and a 33% reduction in recoil energy. Our recoil numbers with low recoil ammo in a Model 66 are now a bit less than 1/3rd of where we started with 158 gr +P ammo in a 642.

The advantages of a heavier revolver make the Model 66 a much better choice for a recoil sensitive shooter as:

- it will be more more comfortable to shoot;
- the shooter will shoot it a lot more and become much more proficient with it;
- the larger heavier revolver will be easier to shoot well;
- for those rare right hand tail defensive handgun uses where you have to shoot, hit the assailant and need to fire multiple shots where terminal ballistics are more important, the larger handgun will allow you to shoot a more effective self defense load while still being within your recoil tolerance; and
- your follow up shots will be faster.

As long as you can comfortably carry and conceal the larger, heavier revolver, there isn’t any downside.

Unfortunately, I often hear “experts” recommend a light weight handgun to women on the basis that if it is heavy, they won’t carry it. A few of them might also recognize the odds are small that it’ll ever be shot. However, whether someone shoots it or not they absolutely need to be confident in it and their ability to shoot it. It’s ironic that the more confidence they have in it and their ability to use it, the less likely they will have to use it for all the reasons outlined above where criminals sense a threat and move on to a softer target.

4) Fit matters.

My method in training a new shooter is to have them:
- focus on the target;
- slowly and sadly draw the handgun and slowly bring it up into their line of sight;
- place the front sight blade on the target;
- pause and align the rear sights with the front sight; and
- keep the sights aligned while they squeeze the trigger.

With repetition they’ll soon discover the sights are already aligned when the front blade comes on target as their brain knows exactly how the muscles in their hand and arm should be tensioned to align the sights. At that point the pause is just to verify the front sight is on target and the sights are aligned.

At that point we start working on speed in the draw without compromising safety and speed in delivering the shot without compromising accuracy.

With sufficient practice and repetition that “pause” is just a very small fraction of a second where they verify the front blade is on target and that they still need to shoot. Since they have trained to the point that they are unconsciously competent in the basics, they have all their available bandwidth available to asses the situation and the threat and the need to shoot - or not.

That’s a long intro to “it’s a lot harder to get naturally occurring sight alignment if the handgun doesn’t fit your hand.

When selecting a hand gun, place the web of your hand over the back strap as you would if you were drawing it focus on a point 20 or so ft away, then bring the handgun up into your line of sight. Can you see the front sight?

If it is hidden by the barrel or slide, it’s probably not the handgun for you. If the gun offers set of different backstraps and you can install one that fits better, it might be a good choice, but insist the gun shop let you try them out before you buy it.

If the front sight is visible but way above the rear sights the handgun again doesn’t fit you. Again a different set of grips might solve the problem - or not.

What you *need* - and you need it far more than you need the latest gee whiz wonder pistol or the “best” self defense round - is a handgun that fits your hand so well that the sights are very close to being aligned when you draw and raise it into your line of sight. You also need to ensure that with a DA revolver or DA semi auto that the trigger reach is short enough that you can get your trigger finger all the way on the trigger up to the first joint to give you adequate leverage for a consistent and accurate DA pull.

——-

Now…with that as background, a few suggestions:

- Try your 642 with low recoil ammo. It might work for you.

- A 2 1/2” or 3” Model 66 or 686+ would be a great choice, provided it fits you and provided you can comfortably carry and conceal it.

A 3” 686+ is my preferred concealed carry revolver as I shoot it exceptionally well, and comfortably, even with full power 125 gr self defense loads. I have found that with a well made double thickness belt and a well designed IWB holster it is very comfortable to carry all day long. It’s also quite concealable under a vest or under an untucked T shirt.

678A6476-F2A2-4CA2-A3E5-CC1BBA6899A1_zpsigyupmtp.jpg
 
A steel frame gun like a model 60 or 649 with decent grips and standard pressure .38 defensive ammo should do the trick. discovered this for myself. Train with standard .38 special ammo it is close to the recoil if not slightly more that the defensive rounds due to heavier (usually 158 grn) bullets.
 
Back
Top