I could use some help please- 1920(?) 38 special ctg

[TJI]

Hey guys,
I've searched some of the threads but nothing really matched my query. My father has his fathers .38 special ctg.
He has had it tucked away for 50 years since his father died. He would to know a little more about the gun than he already does so any help would be greatly appreciated. I'll try to keep it as simple as I can.
1)serial no# 270857(on cylinder and under The ejector rod.
2) serial no# on bottom of grip has been removed by multiple punch marks
3)the serial under the ejector rod looks like this 9 270857 *
4) it's dirty and I haven't cleaned it yet until I hear from you.
5) I will post some pics but will post better ones if you need it.
6) grandfather had this revolver in upper Minnesota at his outfitters.
Thanks again

 

[Lee Barner]

welcome to the forum. definitely 1920s based on the stocks. great condition for a 90 year old gun. clean it up and shoot it. some of the folks on here have data bases that will narrow down the ship date/year. many of us on here love the old military & police revolvers and the five inch is one of my favorites. lee

 

[steelslaver]

This sucks. Nice looking old M&P and a family gun besides.
But
The number on the grip frame is the official serial number in the opinion of the BATF. The gun control actt of 1968 made it illegal to alter or remove the serial number. If the number onn the but is punched out right now the gun is illegal.
Some have gone to the BATF and managed to get a new serial number. Possibly you could get an OK to restamp the original number. But, I don't know how mch trouble the had, how they went about it, I believe through a local LEO, not sure. Might depend on who you talk to at BATF oand what he hadd for dinner. Good luck. I would refrain from annoouncing to the world you have such a gun.

 

[KEN L]

3)the serial under the ejector rod looks like this 9 270857 *

Nice looking gun there. That "9" is most likely the letter "B" to indicate the gun left the factory as a blued gun. Too bad about the grip frame serial number. The * after the serial number indicates it went back to the mothership and had some work done to it. Look on the left side of the grip frame, with stocks removed, to see if there is some kind of date stamp to indicate a re-blue. Don't worry to much about that obliterated serial number. It's been in the family for a long time without incident. As long as it stays in the family I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most likely dates to Feb/Mar 1917.

 

[JP@AK]

With that serial number it isn't from the 1920s, although the stocks are. The number likely points to just after the First World War, or thereabouts.

On the barrel flat, I don't think that is a 9 at the front. It is probably a B, meaning the gun left the factory with a blue finish. The star means it went back to the factory for service at some point. No telling for what.

The obliterated serial number on the butt is a problem, as steelslaver mentioned. However, you might remove the stocks to see if the number has been re-stamped on the left side of the grip frame. While you are at it, look for a date code there as well. It will probably look like x.xx or xx.xx.

I suspect this gun has been reblued, but we can't see it well enough to say. If you post a pic of the right side of the gun, it might help clear that up.

 

[TJI]

Wow, you guys are fast! Thanks all for the input.
The price is never leaving the family so the serial no# on the butt missing/punched out is really not a concern to us since it'll stay in the family . I actually found it really interesting that the no# on the butt was gone. Made me think, why?. Although you'd think that whoever did it would know there were other identifying marks on the gun. Kinda hard to miss but...... anyway I'll post some better pics so you can have a better look. Again, thanks guys I obviously came to right place .

 

[Targets Guy]

s/n 273839 shipped in Apr 1917 as did s/n 259176.

Beautiful revolver.

 

[Targets Guy]

I think April 1917 was about the time we entered WWI.

 

[DWalt]

That SN probably shipped in 1917. The obliterated SN makes it a FEDERALLY illegal gun. You can go to BATFE, to see if anything can be done, but more than likely it will be confiscated. You can try to get them to let it be re-stamped with a new SN which they will issue, but be aware you will need to come up with a mighty good reason why the SN was obliterated.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! What the guys are trying to tell you it's that just owning that gun is a federal crime. Probably at the time the serial number was eradicated , it was okay. But in 1968 the gun control Act required that each gun have a unique serial number and that number could not be altered or eradicated. While it's highly unlikely that a Federal Officer would come into your house to find that gun, you wouldn't want to leave your family members something that might get them in trouble. At the very least it would be confiscated and it would lose its heirloom value. I think that if you approach them honestly and tell the BATFE that you discovered that the gun had an illegal serial number , they would allow you to keep it after it got a new number.

Guy

 

[TJI]

No serial no#

Guys, I really appreciate all the input and the help.
Let me point out that I just saw the gun for the first time yesterday. I had no idea nor did my 89 year old father that the serial number was punched out. As a responsible gun owner I pointed out to my father that the missing no# could be trouble but since I have no experience with older guns I didn't know if that applied to a 90 year old piece. As I said, there are other identifying marks on the gun. This piece will never leave the house. I must admit I do worry about applying for a new serial No# as neither my father or I have any idea when or who made the numbers disappear. I try to make it a habit to not stick my hand in a bear trap. That being said my grandfather (who died when I was 2)was a tough son a gun from Denmark who traveled the world hunting and carousing.( you should see his scrapbook) At one point He was a Capt. in the Siamese Army who taught the troops how to headbutt a man. Whether or not he had this revolver at the time I don't know, but I'd like to think he did and what a story this thing could tell.
I'm going to clean it up and put it in the safe and maybe occasionally take it out and imagine where it's been.
Thanks to all of you for your help. It's been a pleasure.

 

[Inusuit]

While an obliterated serial number on an old revolver may not be in the same category as, say, an unregistered fully automatic firearm or a long gun that does not meet barrel length requirements, it is as others have stated a federal crime to possess. While it "may never leave the house," I can envision scenarios where it could come to the attention of someone who would pursue prosecution of the owner. That might be you, or someone who inherits the revolver. If you get run over by a beer truck tomorrow, would survivors know what to do with it? Would they understand the risk of ownership as clearly as you do?

I would hate to take the risk of have the gun confiscated by an overzealous BATF person, but I have no desire to end up with federal firearms charges either.

 

[Kenny D]

This thing about serial numbers resurfaces from time to time but no one has ever said that they had a gun confiscated or went to prison because of one. Not saying it hasn't happened but I doubt it was because of a 100 year old revolver. I have a Model of 1905, 4th change that someone altered the serial number by adding two letters to the front and four extra digits on the rear of the number on the butt. Plus over the years the numbers have become very faint due to normal wear. I haven't lost any sleep over it and my son has already told me that he wants it when I kick the bucket. Doesn't sound like he is worried too much about it either!

 

[Gordyf808]

This thing about serial numbers resurfaces from time to time but no one has ever said that they had a gun confiscated or went to prison because of one. Not saying it hasn't happened but I doubt it was because of a 100 year old revolver. I have a Model of 1905, 4th change that someone altered the serial number by adding two letters to the front and four extra digits on the rear of the number on the butt. Plus over the years the numbers have become very faint due to normal wear. I haven't lost any sleep over it and my son has already told me that he wants it when I kick the bucket. Doesn't sound like he is worried too much about it either!

I'm with you. If you don't have to take it to the cop shop and present it for registration like we do here in HI, I would not lose a lot of sleep over the number on the butt. It shows in the other spots
Maybe don't use it as a carry piece, or shoot somebody with it, and enjoy as you should.
Just thoughts
Aloha

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

My guess is that he got this revolver from a local police officer, who took it away from a bad guy or it was recovered at a crime scene. But, we'll never know for sure.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

I have 2554XX and it should be from around 1916. Except for the barrel that w/S on the flat is from '46 or thereabouts. Non-heat treated cylinder, but I've shot Blazer 158gn LRN a time or two.

Who knows why yout SN was punched? As well who knows if the cylinder SN is the one of record? More than fair chance that it is, but w/o access to records of transfer, in lieu of reciept, it's all speculation.

I have a Model 1917 that was purchased from a well respected aution house. Upon receiving shipment I noted the SN of record was not the butt SN, but the assembly number.

Research shined light that when the arm was first listed as coming to auction they had posted the proper SN. However, upon changing over to actual online auction someone listed the assembly number as the SN.

Another arm had a wedge cut out of the center of the butt. A number was stamped on the outside of the wedge still on the butt. That number was the same as the assembly number. Every other stamped SN was matching and a different number.

Regardless, it was purchased from a dealer and that number is the SN of record. The assembly number matched a SN for that arm from an earlier date. The barrel/cylinder/extractor could have been from a later arm.

And it's possible that the frame from a later era was also engraved.

Yet another arm has no SN on the butt or frame. Most likely filed down smooth along w/lanyard plug. A somewhat common practice on surplus arms in the 50's-early '60s. From a different out of state dealer, this SN of record matched the barrel/cylinder/extractor.

A different well known auction house twice sold a pair of arms that not only had no SN on the butt, but had a persons name in semi-pro blocked lettering. They sold them w/SN from the barrel/cylinder/extractor.

They have much more to lose by being a high end firearm auction house than some schmuck that purchased it or had a similar family heirloom from the last century.

Were yours mine I'd shoot it.

 

[DWalt]

As has been made abundantly clear, the gun is illegal and it is a federal crime to have it, buy it, or sell it. And there is no easy way to make it legal. It's that simple. On the other hand, unless you are caught with it in your possession under adverse circumstances, or unless someday it is required to be registered, as some states require, there's little risk in keeping it at home. I just wouldn't advertise the fact I have it. Why was the SN obliterated? There is almost a 100% chance that it was stolen at some time.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

No.

To you, and others perhaps, circumstantial evidence combined w/speculation justifies rush to prima facie judgment.

W/o any other collaborating evidence the best odds of being stolen or not can only be 50/50. It either is or it isn't.

ETA: It might have been stolen twenty times, yet the odds remain the same based on evidence at hand. The only guarantee is that someone, at some point in time over the last 100 years, punched the SN on the butt.

Conjecture is a shady mistress for good reason.

 

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! My dad gave me 1 while he was still alive. It was lettered, June 1919. Gave it to my oldest son. It still gets fired once & a while. Never had any issues with it. Bob