I find it interesting that the retired LEO gun enthusiasts discuss guns with civilian

[THEWELSHM]

I suppose I should have mentioned it was wheel guns I was referencing Don't know if that would make a difference? Maybe its not even relevent


thewelshm

 

[feralmerril]

We just carried a knife, rope and a salt shaker.

 

[Manolito]

I raised a Deputy Sheriff who is on a special team and when him and I get together I did 18 months in combat we tend to clash a little. He has been taught and swallowed the kool-Aid that there is them and the rest are inept people who can't control their own lives. When I taught him the offensive side of combat he was amazed at the difference between action and reaction. Not all Navy guys are on ships and not all navy guys not on ships are SEALS as I found out.

If you have to interact with people by starting off with your occupation and grade you probably aren't doing it right. Ask yourself why should you know if the guy shooting next to you is a cop or not?

My first post and I promise to do a lot more listening and a lot less posting.

Respectfully,
Bill

 

[ACP230]

I shot PPC type matches, rifle matches, bowling pin, and other matches with cops. I'm not competing as much now, but I doubt that things
around here have changed much.

 

[loc n load]

Cops, guns & citizens

Started my career in 73 and retired in 08 - saw a huge change in the profession & society during those years.....I was a life member of the NRA in the 60's,avid 2nd amendment advocate. I have been a competitor in Bullseye, IPSC,PPC, Metallic sil, service rifle & hi power competition.
I served as a police use of force instructor/firearms instructor for 30 years and served as a NRA rifle, pistol, shotgun, home safety & personal defense instructor for citizens for 40 years.....I have known a lot of cops, and a lot of citizens who were interested in guns, were responsible and enjoyed the sports that they participated in.
As a LEO training officer I can tell you that the vast majority of LEO's are not "gun people", most shoot only when they have to qualify because that is a condition of their employment.
Most Leo's that I know are all for responsible armed citizens, who have had some training and are proficient with their firearms. I think what brings these two factions together on this forum so well, is that we all have a common interest. Smith & Wessons & guns. And the members & moderators do a good job of keeping things civil.

 

[THEWELSHM]

I raised a Deputy Sheriff who is on a special team and when him and I get together I did 18 months in combat we tend to clash a little. He has been taught and swallowed the kool-Aid that there is them and the rest are inept people who can't control their own lives. When I taught him the offensive side of combat he was amazed at the difference between action and reaction. Not all Navy guys are on ships and not all navy guys not on ships are SEALS as I found out.

If you have to interact with people by starting off with your occupation and grade you probably aren't doing it right. Ask yourself why should you know if the guy shooting next to you is a cop or not?

My first post and I promise to do a lot more listening and a lot less posting.

Respectfully,
Bill

I interact with many hence my post, I don't think its an occupation thing because I shoot with and take many. it was more of a general question?

thewelshm

 

[luangtom]

The stories an old LEO can tell make ya laugh. Now, I am one of those old-timers....

The varieties of gun-enthusiasts amongst LEO varies as it does among civilian gun-owners. They run the gamut from the Officer Tackleberry-type to the Barney Fife-type. When qualifying, the stories really show up. So, the opinions will vary and the stories many.

It is mind-set for what the officer or the civilian wants to apply to his or her training. Shoot safe and often.

 

[MaximumLawman]

Cops generally don't want to talk to non-cops about guns because most people who would approach a cop to talk about guns are obnoxious. Same goes for "police interceptors". If I had a dime for every time I heard: "Does that car have the police interceptor package on it?"

As far as the "us vs. them" mentality, that generally begins outside of law enforcement. The police world has always been an insular and "members only" field, somewhat like the military...or the Masons..... If anything police agencies and officers are MORE in tune with the non-cop world, and community relations, than ever before.

The fascination that non-cops have for cops' guns has always amazed me considering the extremely small part that guns play in law enforcement. Three words: Too Much TV.

Most of the LE old timers shoot well, but too many of the younger ones are spray and prayer's, I've seen my share of Non-LEO's who shoot extremely well and would embarrass the spray and prayers.

I came on in the 80's and the "old timers" shot like **** in the same proportion than any other age group did. I never fired a revolver (or any other kind of firearm) before I came on the job and I shot "expert" out of the academy and throughout my career and was on the precinct pistol team my first year. Any police firearms instructor will tell you that he'd rather start out with a recruit that never fired a weapon before as opposed to some guy trained by uncle Billy Bob at the county dump. That include guys who came out of the military, excepting those with a few specific types of MOS.

Most of the LE old timers shoot well, but too many of the younger ones are spray and prayer's, I've seen my share of Non-LEO's who shoot extremely well and would embarrass the spray and prayers.

I'd much rather work with a guy who can handle himself on a domestic dispute, mental run or bar fight than a guy who can shoot all X's. Police expertise in "firearms" is more about knowing when to keep the gun in the holster than it is about technical proficiency with a firearm.

Also....People who seem to have this halcyon view of what cops "USED" to be with the sepia tones of a Norman Rockwell painting don't have a clue. Cops are better in virtually all regards today as opposed to yesteryear. You were far more likely to get your azz kicked 50 years ago for "contempt of cop" than you are today. Same for being treated unconstitutionally in any respect. The ONLY thing I would give to the "old timers" is that they had to do more with less technology. Now we do a LOT more work with a lot more technology. And accountability has never, ever been higher. Speaking of accountability: Most "old timer" cops couldn't or wouldn't do the job today knowing there was a video and audio recorder in the car for the whole shift. And I wouldn't blame them either.

 

[rwsmith]

I think this is true....

It seems that the older generation of cops were more firearms friendly.

I think that goes for the general population as well.

 

[Smitty357]

I guess it depends on where u are from. Down here our local sheriff is a very well known gun guy. He spent his life coming up in the ranks and now he's finally top dog. He frequents the local range with the locals as well as do some of his staff. So from time to time, the locals get a few pointers from a very well trained sheriff.

Me and my ole lady have our own little connections within the local law enforcement. We get to shoot with those guys on a regular basis and have done a bunch of simunition classes with them . Most of our training has come from them as well as other visiting agencies.

Learn what u can from who u can while u can.

For all u guys who have a local who offers simunition training. I highly suggest u and a few buddies take some of those classes. You would be surprised how much more different it is when ur targets are moving and actually shooting back at you.

 

[old bear]

Just asking if any LEO go to the range with civilians? And if so how do they rate a civilian amateur shooter versus an officer with training?

As I've been retired more than a few years, I always shoot at a public range. So I'm almost always shooting with non-cops.
My experience is there exceptions both ways. Many amateur shooters are as good as I was or better. We have a tiny-tiny lady who must be in her mid-70's who constantly out shoots most of us.

As for range behavior and safety, I've found that to be lacking with some civilian shooters. I believe that is just a lack of experience and nothing more.

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

Some gun nut friends are cops and some are not. All are great friends and we all learn from each other. Most of co-workers know nothing about firearms, the only ones they own are their issued ones and are real libs.

I enjoy talking guns and all kinds of stuff when I contact people in the field. They seen surprised that I like guns and enjoy talking about them. I think it is a great way to connect with people in the field and show LE is not bad or freaks out when they see people exercising their second amendment rights, especially with open carry.

 

[Biggfoot44]

For generations LE and gun owners saw themselves as generally alied. It has been in recent year , moreso in some regions that their political masters demonize all gun owners.

A greater percentage of cops are "into" guns than the overall population , but far from a majority of them. For the average Ofc having to go to the range is considered a pain in the butt. There are some Ofc interested in guns and shooting generally , and some primarilly interested in specifically increasing those skills to keep alive.

Many Ofc , and even most Instructors have a very narrow viewpoint. They know their Agencies Course of Fire , and General Orders, but little outside of that. Most instructors know little of the history , evolution , or context of what they teach , even when they have good adult education skills at teaching it.

Someone who qualifies as "Expert" , would be doing good to make midpack at a club level match of various types.

But at the same time minor differences in shooting skills per se are well down the list of desireable job skills. * when I was in environment where such things mattered * , I much rathered to be working with someone situationally aware , and street smart , and barely mad minimum score , than people of any skill level who were clueless. Of course those who were both were memorable . And as an observation those who also hunted deer with handguns were generally good people to have around. ( Dating myself with reference to the waning days of .357Mags as duty guns) .

 

[checkmyswag]

don't shoot the messenger but I find the amalgamation between LEO ( retired or serving) and folks on a forum interesting? I would imagine and after I have watched a boat load of COPS shows that an LEO officer would be really wary of people with guns? Maybe its because this is a virtual forum and anonymity is the shield?( but there is definitely a cohesive element within gun forums) Just asking if any LEO go to the range with civilians ? and if so how do they rate a civilian amatuer shooter versus an officer with training?

thewelshm

I'm a decent to slightly good shooter. Most cops aren't very good. Now most cops "into" guns are probably decent shooters.

 

[BigDaddy7972]

I was going to make this point too, until I got to your post. If you're not subject to the UCMJ, you're a civilian. If you don't know what the UCMJ is, you're probably a civilian. Cops and firefighters, despite the fact that many of them want to pretend otherwise, are civilians too.

I agree but I find the use of the term "civilian" by policemen one of th biggest non-issues I've ever seen. Who cares how the police refer to non-police personel. Does it really matter if a policeman calls me or anyone else a civilian? Not to me. Call me what you want,just don't be late in calling me to dinner.

 

[kscardsfan]

I have to agree. Our local PD isn't very gun friendly, however the sheriffs office is, and that's cause a whole lot of the deputies hunt and grew up outdoors.

 

[fdw]

As a realtor I've worked with a number of law enforcement individuals, DEA, special forces, etc. I've found all of them to be really great guys. Love some of their stories.

I recently helped a retired cop find a home for his family and we got on the subject of guns, young fellow, early retirement. He commented that he wished that only police had guns. I let it go because I didn't want to get into it with him but I thought, how can you think like that?

Shocking really

 

[steamloco76]

It is indeed a very sad evolution
But I am always wondering where this feeling comes from?

I don't like the modern police either. I don't have the feeling that they see themselves there to protect and serve. They look intimidating pretty much seem to be just waiting for someone to step over the law so they can go for it...

A recently retired LEO friend made this comment. " When I started my career back in the late 60's our motto was 'Protect and Serve'. The recruit taking my place, like many other young Cops has the attitude 'Enforce and Arrest'."

There are a few younger LEO's who are members in clubs I'm also a member at. These guys are definitely gun enthusiasts and seem very pro 2A. Too bad we can't get more to join.

 

[Old Corp]

I was a gun geek long before becoming an LEO. In my department, a large municipal agency, the average guy was MUCH more interested in a nice set of golf clubs than a firearm.
I was one of the few hard core shooters. Now, in retirement, and working p/t at a LGS/Indoor Range, I see folks of all walks run the gamut of totally terrible at shooting to extremely good.

I work with a fellow retiree from our old agency. One day a couple of 'young guns' many years our junior from our department came in. We held an impromptu shooting match with them. The old guys (US) tromped them soundly. It was fun.

 

[Maze 686]

The only person that should worry about if the guy standing next to him is in law enforcement is the guy committing crimes.

Most people that I shoot against don't tell me where they work or if they are a Dr., Cop, Baker, or Mechanic. Unless I need their service it does'nt come up. I will offer advice to people that need my help at the range though. First I intruduce myself and explain about my teaching experience and if they say no. I say Ok and if they need me I'll be nearby punching out the center ring of my target.

Remember cops have families. Families that they want to protect from crimminals and from their family members from doing stupid things or going to stupid places with stupid people.
Most seem cold to people because they judge people by charactor and not by being trendy.
Put on a uniform and will see that cops will treat rookie cops very coldly and even more so then Joey Bagadonuts. Until they get to know the new officer. Why, becuase they need to see the charactor under the uniform. The uniform is just representing who they get their paycheck from. Same as when I was in the Army.