I frame identity question

[unspellable]

I have an I frame in 38 S&W, 4 inch barrel. It has no hammer block and no appearance of ever having one. Serial number appears to be on front strap rather than bottom. 1098X, rather low.
Any ideas? I'll try to give more details later.

 

[Frailer]

I have an I frame in 38 S&W, 4 inch barrel. It has no hammer block and no appearance of ever having one. Serial number appears to be on front strap rather than bottom. 1098X, rather low.
Any ideas? I'll try to give more details later.

Sounds like you have a Regulation Police, likely shipped circa 1920.

 

[unspellable]

Note condition of finish. The story was that this is a factory refinish. When did the hammer block come in to use?

 

[Frailer]

It has been back to the factory for refurbishment based on the diamond and the date stamped on the grip frame. I’m on my phone’s small screen, but it looks like “1 60” to me, which would indicate the work was done in January 1960.

 

[unspellable]

The number is 1 60. What do we call this revolver?
I'm getting curious about the history of the hammer block.

 

[Muley Gil]

The number is 1 60. What do we call this revolver?
I'm getting curious about the history of the hammer block.

As Frailer said, it is a Regulation Police. The hammer block came to be during WW II, when a Victory model was dropped on a ship's deck, discharged and killed a sailor.

 

[cgt4570]

The modern hammer block as we know it didn't come into existence until very late WW2. A sailor was killed when a Victory model was dropped on its hammer and went off. That caused the change. All post-WW2 Smiths utilize a hammer block.

 

[Lt.Donn]

The modern hammer block as we know it didn't come into existence until very late WW2. A sailor was killed when a Victory model was dropped on its hammer and went off. That caused the change. All post-WW2 Smiths utilize a hammer block.

Ok...so, if the "block" came in around '44-45 and the stamp indicates it came back to Smith in '60...why didn't they upgrade it with the hammer block?...maybe the recess was not milled into the side plate?

 

[unspellable]

Ok...so, if the "block" came in around '44-45 and the stamp indicates it came back to Smith in '60...why didn't they upgrade it with the hammer block?...maybe the recess was not milled into the side plate?

The modern hammer block as we know it didn't come into existence until very late WW2. A sailor was killed when a Victory model was dropped on its hammer and went off. That caused the change. All post-WW2 Smiths utilize a hammer block.

Guess I had it in my head that this occurred in WWI.
Calling it a Regulation Police makes me wonder if the sights are regulated for the old 200 grain load.

 

[JP@AK]

unspellable

Allow me to mention a few things that haven't been brought up here.

The model name of your revolver is actually roll stamped on the right side of the barrel: Regulation Police. Perhaps you didn't notice, but I can see it in your picture. Interestingly, S&W introduced .32 and .38 Regulation Police Models at around the same time, but for whatever reason, only the .38 caliber unit got the name on the barrel.

On the pre-war RP, the serial number always was stamped on the front strap instead of the butt. This was also true of the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target during the same time period. As far as I know, those were the only models to get that placement.

Regarding the hammer block, the K frame guns did get a hammer safety device incorporated in the design in the 19 teens. But it proved to be ineffective, resulting in the change to the sliding hammer block safety that was implemented in December 1944. I do not know if this is true on the I frames. However, after WWII, I, K and N frames all got the new sliding hammer block safety. When the J frame came along a few years later, it also got the new style safety.

 

[Frailer]

Calling it a Regulation Police makes me wonder if the sights are regulated for the old 200 grain load.

I would be surprised if this is the case, for two reasons:

First, as Jack noted above, the .38 and .32 Regulation Police came into being at the same time. Second, unless I’m mistaken the 200-grain load was a post-WWI British innovation—after these revolvers were already in production.

 

[unspellable]

The US commercial 200 grain load was called a police load. No idea of when it came into being or any connection with the British service load.

 

[Hondo44]

The 32 and 38 Regulation Police models were introduced in 1917.
The square butt extension grips mounted on a rd butt grip frame with serial number on the front fore strap was the significant difference from the other I frame 32 and 38 models, the Hand Ejectors.

Besides the .22 heavy frame target I frame, the single shot models and later, the .22 Kit Gun with extended sq butt and target grips which also covered the butt, were also stamped with serial number on the fore grip.

The I frame .32 and .38 had a side plate mounted safety hammer block prior to WWII and the sliding bar block after WWII. The .22 I frame Kit Gun and Heavy frame target models had no hammer block safety of any kind before the war or after the war until the models of 1953 New I Frame .22s when they got the post war sliding bar hammer block.

 

[Hondo44]

Ok...so, if the "block" came in around '44-45 and the stamp indicates it came back to Smith in '60...why didn't they upgrade it with the hammer block?...maybe the recess was not milled into the side plate?

Smith did not retrofit any of the three types of hammer block safeties when guns were returned for refinishing or other work. In your case not only was the side plate incompatible but other internal parts as well.

Your gun has the earliest version of hammer block safety used on the I frame. II works well unless the action possibly has an unusual amount of fouling and accumulation of crud.

You can test it for proper function safely at the range with live ammo:

point gun down range, pull the hammer back but not quite far enough to cock it, keep your trigger finger off of the trigger, and let the hammer drop on a live round. It will not fire if safety is functioning properly.

I’ve never heard of anyone sending a hand ejector back to the factory for a retrofitted hammer block safety. However back in the day S&W would do almost anything a customer requested but depending on how old the gun is, they might not have earlier needed parts available in inventory.

 

[Hondo44]

Guess I had it in my head that this occurred in WWI.
Calling it a Regulation Police makes me wonder if the sights are regulated for the old 200 grain load.

The name Regulation Police was merely a marketing term to help sell a new model with a larger grip. It had no connection or inference to any particular type of ammo.

 

[Hondo44]

I have an I frame in 38 S&W, 4 inch barrel. It has no hammer block and no appearance of ever having one. Serial number appears to be on front strap rather than bottom. 1098X, rather low.
Any ideas? I'll try to give more details later.

Yours could have the very first style of three styles of hammer block. It was introduced on the I frame about the time your gun was made or soon after; I don’t have my notes with me. It’s much less obvious than the WWII sliding bar block. But if you remove the side plate you’ll see it.