I have a hypothetical question.

[old bear]

If someone were to come into a long gun that was manufactured before 1968, that did not have a manufacturers serial number what is the process for installing one? Does one have to contact the BATF or what needs to be done?

Thanks all

 

[s&wchad]

Some shotguns and .22 rifles didn't have serial numbers before the GCA of '68. I'm not aware of any requirement to add a serial # to those. I believe they're simply listed as NSN.

Edit to add: I had an early Remington Fieldmaster and a Winchester 37 (red letter) with no serial #. I purchased the 37 from an FFL and the paperwork was marked "no serial number".

 

[deadin]

As long as it was manufactured without a serial number, nothing needs to be done. If, however, it "lost" its serial somewhere along the line, that's a whole different problem.

 

[Erich]

When I worked at a gun store between college and law school, we'd enter those non-serial-numbered-from-the-maker long guns into the required books as "NSN" ("no serial number") and BATF was perfectly happy with it. I do not believe there exists a requirement to add a serial number - you can always contact ATF for confirmation.

 

[Ozark Marine]

Saw one with no serial number for sale on GB a few weeks ago.
Was temped to bid it but wasn't sure if it was legit.
Did you win that one?

 

[schutzen-jager]

perfectly legal - in this country serial numbers were not required on any long arms produced before Dec. 1968 - i remember when the ones with no serial numbers sold for a large premium over the numbered ones -

 

[old bear]

Everyone, thank you for your comments. The owner, who ever that may be, is concerned about a potential sale, or a younger generation of L/E who may not understand the pre 1968 serial number exception to the law.

 

[2152hq]

Ser#'s were required on all Center Fire caliber rifles and all handguns (rf and cf) prior to GCA68, but not on Shotguns nor on cal .22rf LongGuns.

Some mfg'rs did ser# their shotguns and cal.22rf long guns however.
Some only chose to # certain models of each and not some others in their line. Winchester for example.

Any of the Shotguns or ,22rf Long Guns that were not ser#'d by their mfg'r & made prior to GCA68 can be entered in the FFL/Dealer/Gunsmith LogBook simply as NoSerialNumber as has been noted above.

No need to go looking to have a number applied after the fact.

The GCA68 added those last two groups of firearms (Shotguns & cal22rf Long guns) to be included in manditory ser#'g by their mfg'r.

That made for 'All firearms were required to be ser#'d by their mfg after GCA68 went into effect'

Without knowing what was in place before the law, it's easy to assume from the last statement that no firearms were required to be ser#'s prior to GCA68.
But that is not how it was.
Some were,,some were not.

Removing, altering. obliterating a mfg.rs applied ser# on any firearm has been a Fed felony since 1938 when the Federal Firearms Act (FFA38) was signed into law by FDR.

 

[schutzen-jager]

IIRC

quote - [Marking requirements
The law also required that all newly manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.]

i believe that prior to GCA that that only NFA weapons required a serial number - when i get time i will did out my old regulations from when i had my FFl for the exact statue number

 

[Absalom]

If someone were to come into a long gun that was manufactured before 1968, that did not have a manufacturers serial number what is the process for installing one? Does one have to contact the BATF or what needs to be done?

To literally answer your question:

Assuming that the gun legitimately has no manufacturer's serial, per the circumstances explained by previous posts, you can "install" whatever serial numbers you want on that gun without anyone's permission or involving ATF.

They're just not legally relevant, and have the same status as badge numbers or rack numbers stamped on many guns by police dept. etc.

 

[DWalt]

I have stamped identity characters on un-numbered rifles and shotguns in hidden areas, so that if they are stolen, I can provide something establishing that the gun is mine if recovered.

 

[Absalom]

I have stamped identity characters on un-numbered rifles and shotguns in hidden areas, so that if they are stolen, I can provide something establishing that the gun is mine if recovered.

Indeed. I have a friend who has built himself a few of those sinister and dreadful "ghost guns". All have a serial in a concealed but accessible spot; not a personal identifier like DL or SSN that were fashionable to engrave on guns at one time, but a random letter-number code that can't be independently traced anywhere, but which he can give to law enforcement if a gun is stolen and to prove it's his gun if needed.

 

[DWalt]

Indeed. I have a friend who has built himself a few of those sinister and dreadful "ghost guns". All have a serial in a concealed but accessible spot; not a personal identifier like DL or SSN that were fashionable to engrave on guns at one time, but a random letter-number code that can't be independently traced anywhere, but which he can give to law enforcement if a gun is stolen and to prove it's his gun if needed.

Mine isn't random but six alphanumeric characters that don't mean anything.

 

[mtgianni]

Having bought at least two handguns with social security numbers stamped on them, I agree that you can put almost anything on one. That doesn't make it a serial number any more than the numbers under the yoke.

 

[2152hq]

quote - [Marking requirements
The law also required that all newly manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.]

i believe that prior to GCA that that only NFA weapons required a serial number - when i get time i will did out my old regulations from when i had my FFl for the exact statue number

If that's a quote from Wikipedia, and I think it is,,it's wrong and it's always been wrong.

Centerfire Rifles and all caliber handguns were required to be ser#'d prior to GCA68.

An exaample of someone getting on the Gov'ts wrong side for NOT ser#'g a center fire rifle mfg'd in preGCA68 USA.
Marlin F/A introduced the Levermatic .22rf rifle in the mid 50's (57 I think.)
When orig made it was ser#'d by Marlin. Then the company decided to save a couple cents on each rifle and do without the ser#'g...completely legal as it was a .22rf long gun.
Move up to 1963..Marlin introduces the centerfire edition of the Levermatic,,the Model 62. Caliber 256 Winchester Magnum.

The Model 62 is placed into production and as it is being built, no one bothers to tell or make place on the assembly procedure for the centerfire Model 62 to ser#'d as required by Fed Law (this is 1963.
So Marlin mfg's and ships just over 4000 Levermatic Model 62 centerfire rifles with no ser# on them before the IRS (the L/E agency in charge of policing the FFL/Gun mfg industry pre GCA68) gets wind of it and shuts Marlin down.

After all the bosses and mng'ment at MArlin get a good spankin', the Gov't agrees to let Marlin do a 'Recall' on those 4000+ unser#'d rifles.
Letters go out to all distributors, notices in magazines and other publications,,if you have one 'please return it for ser#'g" at Marlins expense.

Any of those rifles that ever were to come into Marlin for repair were to have a ser# stamped into them.
The IRS,,then after GCA,,the BATF issued a list of special serial numbers that were to be used for that purpose only and kept on record.
I can only remember a couple being numbered in my time in the Repair Dept.
I don't think anyone would purposely send theirs in just to get a # wacked into it! But you never know.

It was still in use as was the recall when I worked there in the 70's and AFAIK was into the 80's. Probably was until Rem took over for all I know.
...Center Fire rifles made before 1968 had to be ser#'d..

All of the above is easily researched on line or you can read it in Brophy's Marlin book as well.

>
>
>
Here's another false statement from the Wikipedia info under their GCA68 entry:
:...The Gun Control Act mandated the licensing of individuals and companies engaged in the business of selling firearms. ..."

The FFL system was mandated and set up under the Federal Firearms Act of 1938.
It was expanded in format by the GCA68 for sure. FFL classifications added, the 4473 added, ect
But the FFL system goes back to 1938

 

[schutzen-jager]

i'll perform my research this week - but nothing you stated in your post is backed up by any published published federal regulation - i have never been able to find any federal regulation in government CFR's requiring serial numbers on non NFA centerfire rifles - most U.S. manufactures used serial numbers on center fires for their own records -

 

[robvious]

I once purchase a 1948 shotgun without a serial number at an auction... the FFL used the somewhat confusing model number on the paperwork... at the time I did not realize they were wrong... only thru research did I find out the manufacturer just stopped using serial numbers in the last year of production and it ended up being a unique piece of history... I will never know if the ATF even realized the snafu, my guess probably not... just more numbers to them...

 

[flagman1776]

I received a Marlin made Sears 22 rifle along with a bullet trap as a birthday present in 1961. It didn't have a SN. I wish I still had it.

 

[Ματθιας]

I bought a non serial numbered mossberg 500 from the LGS a couple, three years ago. It was just like any other sale. I filled out the 4473, paid my money and walked out the door.


If/when I have any transfer questions, I just ask my FFL guy.

 

[2152hq]

i'll perform my research this week - but nothing you stated in your post is backed up by any published published federal regulation - i have never been able to find any federal regulation in government CFR's requiring serial numbers on non NFA centerfire rifles - most U.S. manufactures used serial numbers on center fires for their own records -

Why would the IRS (the BATF of the time) in 1963/64 make Marlin recall 4000+ centerfire rifles that were shipped w/o a factory serial# if there wasn't an IRS rule that the Centerfire rifles were supposed to be ser#'d in the first place.
If there was no rule,,the IRS would not have been the least bit interested in Marlins lapse in not #'ing those Model 62's. Nor would they have made sure the Model 62 was ser#'d from then on.

The GCA demanded that .22rf longguns and all shotguns be ser#'d if they had not been in the past by their mfg'rs.
That made for all classes of Title I firearms to be ser#'d going forward.

That's what it did...I got no more..I ain't a lawyer.
An FFL of 50yrs,,but no lawyer.