I just got a depressing call from Houlton ME PD Updated 7/20

Good job 47D!

Like I said; I'm not a lawyer AND, truth be told, I didn't really stay at a holiday inn last night either!

But you get the idea. There's legal remedy and the whole deal COULD be unwound in court somehow.

So let me revise my suggestion; find the APPLICABLE law and then write a strongly worded letter. I used to have a lawyer-friend who would have written the letter for free. Somehow the lawyer's letterhead has quite an impact.
 
I haven't been on the computer much lately and only became aware of this thread today after a friend told me about it.

Now as the FFL dealer who bought 22 out of 32 stolen gun over the past 14 months along with some tools, ammo, holsters, and some scopes I will tell everyone the rest of the story. I had sold less than half the stolen guns and had given one to my son when the theft was discovered. This incident has cost me over $9,000 which given the volume of business I do is catastrophic. I operate a small shop and receive a small disability check due to a serious back injury at work which left me with 5 permantly injured discs in my neck and upper back and 4 more in my lower back.


First I'll attempt to answer some of the questions raised. I often check with the local PD even though there is no requirement to do so in Maine as to whether or not a gun is stolen before purchasing it. However in this case the guns were not known to have been stolen until approximatly 2 months after the last one had been sold by the theif.

Maine has a fairly good restitution system which will reimburse what the buyer paid for the guns.

I have provided the investigating detective as well as the DA with copies of my sales receipts for the stolen guns. That is how they knew who to contact to have them returned. I also provided both with copies of my bill of sale signed by the thief who sold them to me.

As how they were traced to me. Chalk it up to good memory of a local cop. About 4 months before the theft was reported he had stoped the thief for speeding and driving to endanger. He had a semi auto 9 mm in the case he had bought from me only minutes before. He also had the receipt I had given him. The receipt showed that he had traded 2 of the stolen guns with me for the semi auto and some cash. That particular cop was the one who handled the initial theft report and remembered those two guns when he saw them on the list. Dad had an excellent record of when he bought a gun, make, model, cal, and SN. So he brought a copy of the list of stolen guns to me and I went thru my records to see just what I had bought from the thief. I had bought 22 of the 32 stolen guns.

I agree 100 per cent with the concensus that I am responsible for repaying the purchasers, but the sad fact is that at this point in time I am unable to. Right now due primearly to the stolen items I purchased and then due to the poor economy in the northern section of the state I have purchased nearly 3 times as many guns over the past year as I normally would have, this had stretched my funds to the limit, so now I am on the verge of losing my business due to bankruptcy. At this point in time I just do not have the money to refund those who bought stolen guns from me. I'm hoping to be able to hang on until this fall and to have a good fall selling lots of guns at which time I will start repaying some of those who lost out due to buying a stolen gun from me. It may take me a little time but I fully intend to eventually make every one whole. In the mean time I have talked to the DA requesting that anyone who bought a gun from me be paid restitution before I am paid any.

The kid (I say kid but he is either 26 or 27) stole 32 guns, a bunch of ammo, some scopes, grips, & other misc shooting supplies and some air carpentry tools from his father over approximately a 14 month period. And the last 3 weeks before the discovery of the stolen property he was attempting to sell dad's 1968 and 1976 Harley motorcycles. He also stole around $20,000 worth of jewelry of his mothers most of which had been inherated from her mother for the gold and silver value. All to support a drug habit.
 
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Wow,

This is a sad story indeed. 41 nut, as a fellow gun dealer, Mainer and human being I am keeping you in my thoughts to pull out of this unfortunate circumstance. Stay strong!
 
I'm not sure how De La Hoya v. Slim's Gun Shop would apply since there was no action filed against the OP by a third party.
It is an example of how breach of warranty of title was the proper action when a gun dealer sold a gun he later discovered he did not have title to. The damages awarded in the case included the full value of the gun. Obviously, the precedent that damages may also include the recovery of attorney's fees incurred in a third party action does not apply here.
 
41 nut, it appears a lot of us "shot from the hip" upon hearing of this. It is expected, since we all buy firearms from time to time, and the thought of thieves stealing them is a constant worry, I'm sure.

Do you sell on Gunbroker? If so, perhaps you could tell us where to look for your sales . . . if there is anything I can afford, I'd be glad to make a purchase to try to help you out of this bind you are in, through no fault of your own.

Good luck in getting your business out of a mess created by a sleezy, low-life jerk.
 
41 Nut- I am sorry for your loss. If you PM me your # I will call and discuss anything I might purchase for the shop or customers. You could list items on here, though I realize it is time consuming. Do you have any listings on any auction site? Stay Strong.
 
It is an example of how breach of warranty of title was the proper action when a gun dealer sold a gun he later discovered he did not have title to. The damages awarded in the case included the full value of the gun. Obviously, the precedent that damages may also include the recovery of attorney's fees incurred in a third party action does not apply here.

I read the part in damages awarded about full price of the gun, I was wondering if a third party action would be needed to bring civil suit under this precedent. (Not that I'm advocating civil suit, just clarifying a legal question)
 
Very sad story all around, we are constantly reminded how drugs can ruin many lives. 41NUT, you realy need to let us know what you have for sale, I also am on GB everyday and am always looking for something interesting. This unfortunatly also brings up the whole gun registry topic, I for one do not want the government knowing what I have past what was aquired since 68' but this might never have happened if you were able to check on the guns before buying them from the adict. Its a double edged sword, autonomy on one side, safety on the other.
 
This truly is sad. At the very least someone is out a lot of money for what? A boy's drug habit. 41nut has a small gun business and got caught up in a boy selling his dad's guns to fund his drug habit. The boy is the bad guy here. 41nut doesn't have the funds to refund the purchase price of all the stolen guns he sold. The law might not require him to make restitution, but he is trying to do the best of his limited ability.

Another case of drugs impacting innocent bystanders. This boy (I know, 26 years old is grown up, but this pissant is a little boy!) should be the one who, over time, has to pay back the thousands of dollars that these people are out, plus more money for their time and suffering. The problem is that by the time this boy has the ability to repay the money in 30 years or so, when he finally gets his life turned around, many of these guys like 41nut might not be around anymore.

Drugs are the cancer that's killing this country & the liberals want them legalized.:eek: Then we can spend our tax dollars on the druggie's medical bills through Obama-care. Ain't it great?
These liberals have the plan all worked out...they think!!!
 
41nut ~ As I read your post above and got to the last paragraph, I knew the reason this young man was stealing before I got to the last six words - drugs. Then, further down in the thread, another member had this to say "Drugs are the cancer that's killing this country & the liberals want them legalized. Then we can spend our tax dollars on the druggie's medical bills through Obama-care. Ain't it great? These liberals have the plan all worked out...they think!!!" Not wishing in any way to turn this into a political discussion I must say that this member is partially correct in my opinion. Drugs are indeed a cancer that is ruining / killing the youth of this country but, to say "....Then we can spend our tax dollars on the druggie's medical bills...." is downright ridiculous, cruel and a statement made by many people who have never felt the destruction of a loved one who is using. By using, I don't mean marijuana but hard drugs like heroin. To lump all users together and call them "druggies" is an offensive statement and it really raises my hackles. I know what its like and have personally lost in the neighborhood of $200K over the last twelve years because of someone's addiction. I also had a daughter that was fourteen years old killed by a drunk driver (alcohol - another socially accepted nasty drug) in 1998. Drugs, especially heroin, cause an almost uncontrollable addiction which leaves the person that tried it in a very bad life and death situation. But, and never forget this, they are human beings that are good people (most) that are caught in a disease state that usually ends in their death.

The programs available to help these people beat their addiction DO NOT WORK yet that's exactly what the courts order for the addicted person that ends up there. Its not a "liberal" (which I am not) problem and "liberals" aren't the only people that are pushing for the legalization of marijuana. Please also don't forget if you are old enough to have "been there" during the 60s, we are the generation that started all this. The drug problem needs to be attacked from its source but then again, like everything else that has alot of money attached to it, who or what is really the source of the problem? Everyone needs to stop blaming everyone else and the nation as a whole needs to find a way to stop it :mad: .

I feel your pain 41nut and wish all the best for you. This young man has brought a tremendous burden upon you, his family, his friends, and himself. I also feel for the those like the person who started this thread because they are also innocent victims and no-one deserves all this. Put a few items up for sale here 41nut and I'll try to buy something to try and help you out a little if I can. I'm sure others here feel the same way.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this post but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Pa-Reb- I have seen the devastating effects that alcohol and heroin can have on a person, their family, and society. The programs that are available have mixed results for "cures". The best program will fail with an unrequited addict and there in lies the problem. No one can "make" someone stop using, and society responds in a "human" way- anger- bargaining-denial-depression-acceptance (Kubler-Ross mosel ). It takes time for an outsider to realize that it is not as simple as it seems. Right/Wrong are crystal clear concepts for some people, while others are shrouded in grey. Pot is not the killer, ask any LEO how many domestics they have gone to where the actors were smoking pot?? Alcohol leads the way. Ca collected millions in sales tax last year from medical marijuana, should it be legal?? I do not know only fear adding 20 million "impaired" drivers, But would it stop the illegal market?? Too many questions for this thread, forum, life. Be Safe,
 
Some guy bought a stolen gun and now we're talking about heroin addicts? Man this thread is way off the trail...

I agree that this isn't the proper forum for discussing heroin addiction but, the statement was made and, like it or not, I'm going to respond with my thoughts. The post above shouldn't have been made here in the first place. My whole point was that thousands of people are losing millions of dollars every day because of it and I feel bad for people like 41nut and the person who started this thread. End of discussion for me.
 
Show the deealer no mercy, if he has no money i call bs, as he had the bucks to buy 32 guns from the crook, HE HAS MONEY,give him no slack.
 
I've been following this thread......bottom line is...a dealer bought some weapons that ended up being stolen.......make it right with the people you sold the weapons to.......then you can try to get your money back from the thief....the owner who collected from his insurance company.....or some sort of relief fund for victims....end of story....drugs, no drugs....this man bought a handgun from you in good faith.....make it right.....it's not his fault...it's yours.

Semper Fi
Always a Marine
 
I read the part in damages awarded about full price of the gun, I was wondering if a third party action would be needed to bring civil suit under this precedent. (Not that I'm advocating civil suit, just clarifying a legal question)
It's not really bringing suit under this (or any) case. The cause of action is statutory. Breach of warranty of title is an action under the Uniform Commercial Code, which both Maine and California have adopted. The third party suit didn't create the cause of action, it just added to the damages.

Disclaimer: I'm not answering legal questions and this is not legal advice. Seek the counsel of an attorney who is licensed in your state if you have legal questions.
 
This thread is about two unfortunate gun owners and an FFL who is not legally required to verify a firearm they purchased is not a stolen firearm prior to reselling it.

It's damn easy to rationalize that the FFL should refund buyers price minus his purchase price. That may be the fair for all thing to do but obviously not required.

A simple, inexpensive, unintrusive system could easily be instituted that would protect our personal privacy and prevent many of these situations from occurring. It would only slightly inconvenience the FFL.

BUT, it would make it a nightmare for an individual to sell a firearm. Had it all figured out until realizing that, darn it.

I'm sorry to hear of the OP's and others experiences. Individuals(OP) sometimes have to pay for the benefit of the convenience of the whole group.


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Show the deealer no mercy, if he has no money i call bs, as he had the bucks to buy 32 guns from the crook, HE HAS MONEY,give him no slack.

You NEED to read the whole thread including page 15, 41nut (the dealer), before you make statements that show you are only dealing with partial facts.
 
Show the deealer no mercy, if he has no money i call bs, as he had the bucks to buy 32 guns from the crook, HE HAS MONEY,give him no slack.

Buying the guns from the thief does not means he has money . . . it means he had money - which he gave to the thief.

Something like this is catastrophic for a small, one man business. The FFL was a victim, too.
 
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