I must be the exception

[fwrogg]

I also just purchased my first handgun, had rifles and shotguns since I was 14 so not new to guns and have shot handguns just never owned one. So Saturday I purchased my first handgun (SD9VE) and purchased two boxes of ammo. On Sunday Cleaned it good and went to the range on Sunday. As this is mostly for my wife, I loaded it for her and went through the handling and range procedures and had her fire it. First round Jam, Second round Jam, and the next 40 rounds were the same FTE, FTF. some were pretty good jams. I also shout it and had the same results. At this point there could be so many issues (Ammo, Limp Wrist, Gun, Users) I plan on getting some different ammo and maybe having a more experienced user shoot it, but I just don't feel confident in this gone for protection now and my wife will probably never pick it up again. It was a horrible experience for her and her first time shooting. Luckily we took a .22 along so she got to do some good shooting, but she really was looking forward to the handgun. By the way the Ammo we used was fiocchi 9mm 115 gr.

My next visit will be to take an experienced shooter and some different brand of ammo to try and narrow down the issue.

My first post on this forum also which looks to be a great forum, I just need to get past this issue.

 

[Arik]

We're the FTE failure the EJECT or EXTRACT?

FTF...failure to FIRE or FEED?

Fiochi is generally good ammo. I would get another shooter and another box of Fiochi, along with other ammo. This way the other person gets to fire the same thing you did and of course to try another brand as well

 

[fkienast]

You might want to state what ammo you used that had this jamming effect.

 

[Arik]

You might want to state what ammo you used that had this jamming effect.

He did. Fiocci

 

[mlk18]

Did you field strip, clean and lube the gun before shooting? Always a good idea. Also with modern manufacturing techniques sometimes new guns, even high quality guns, need a break in period. Many won't agree with this but I have had brand new Glocks & M&P's that had a few hiccups in the first few mags and then for whatever reason worked out their troubles. It could be the gun (everyone makes the occasion lemon) or it could be the shooter. Your idea to have another hand pull the trigger is a good idea. If it is the gun the good news is that S&W has a lifetime warranty and will fix whatever is wrong.

 

[fwrogg]

Thanks for the replies, just for some more information the failure was usually a spent cartridge stuck in the top of the gun after firing it. as they tend to come out the top on eject and not the side. This jam would then cause the round that was loading to get stuck as the prior cartridge was in the way. Other times it would eject but not load a new cartridge so I would have a fail to fire.

I plan on going to the range on Saturday, hopefully with an experienced shooter and with different ammo. Will post results and maybe some videos or pictures of the jam if it still continues.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Too bad about the first outing. Luckily it's not an heirloom, and is easily replaced, if need be.

You are not the exception, I am a novice shooter and have acquired a dozen new firearms in the last 18 months. Half have needed repairs. My husband Walther is now boxed, to return for repair today.

I had a new Mossberg rifle that would not feed any ammo. Tried multiple brands of ammo, and the retailers in-house gunsmith worked on it a bit, to no avail. Traded it back to the retailer the next day, for a higher quality weapon.

Good luck.

 

[star1]

If it isn't the ammo (could be as I've had both FTFire and FTEjects with one brand of ammo with my SD9VE ) then S&W will treat you right if the vendor you bought it from won't exchange it (most won't) . Call S&W and they will take care of it for you at no cost to you
Norm

 

[gwpercle]

I also just purchased my first handgun, had rifles and shotguns since I was 14 so not new to guns and have shot handguns just never owned one. So Saturday I purchased my first handgun (SD9VE) and purchased two boxes of ammo. On Sunday Cleaned it good and went to the range on Sunday. As this is mostly for my wife, I loaded it for her and went through the handling and range procedures and had her fire it. First round Jam, Second round Jam, and the next 40 rounds were the same FTE, FTF. some were pretty good jams. I also shout it and had the same results. At this point there could be so many issues (Ammo, Limp Wrist, Gun, Users) I plan on getting some different ammo and maybe having a more experienced user shoot it, but I just don't feel confident in this gone for protection now and my wife will probably never pick it up again. It was a horrible experience for her and her first time shooting. Luckily we took a .22 along so she got to do some good shooting, but she really was looking forward to the handgun. By the way the Ammo we used was fiocchi 9mm 115 gr.

My next visit will be to take an experienced shooter and some different brand of ammo to try and narrow down the issue.

My first post on this forum also which looks to be a great forum, I just need to get past this issue.

Sorry about all your issues, I too had similar semi-auto issues and just got tired of the drama....ammo, gun , magazine, shooter, what's the problem(s)??????
So, I bought the gun you see in my avatar, a model 58 S&W revolver. Liked it and now have two 38's , a 357 magnum and one 22 , all revolvers.
Any ammo that fits in the chamber will fire, factory or my light cast lead bullet loads. Never, with any of the revolvers have I had a failure, just go and shoot all I want, heck, I don't have to crawl around searching for my brass.
Try a revolver, reliability , confidence and revolvers are just cool.
I figure if 6 rounds of 41 magnum want take care of the problem.....I need a shotgun or rifle.
Gary

 

[WayneJessie]

You are wise getting an experienced pistol shooter involved. Light polymer pistols are far more sensitive to weaker ammo loads and/or grip issues.

 

[Comrad]

You didn't per chance get a box of sub-sonic ammo did you?

Similar thing happened to me with a new out of the box 10/22. I never saw the fine print on the box.

The failure you describe is similar to mine, not enough energy to extract the spent cartridge.

 

[Watchdog]

Well, shoot if you must this old gray head, but I look at the SD9VE as a budget pistol which suits a lot of people as long as they realize they've gotten what they paid for. This is a less-than-four-hundred-dollar pistol that S&W threw out into the marketplace for the sole reason of generating quick profits. I think quality took a back seat.

Fiocchi makes good range ammo, but like everything else, you can get a bad lot.

It's a shame this pistol gave your wife such a bad first impression/experience. That's no way to get acquainted with a pistol.

Giving it the benefit of a doubt, I'd give the pistol one more chance. Run another box of the Fiocchi through it (or try) and a box of comparable range ammo. If the gun doesn't work well with ordinary ol' range ammo, no way I'd trust it for anything else, especially with its (measured) 8.5-pound trigger pull.

If you don't like it, ditch it. The gun shops are chock full of 9mm semi-autos to choose from.

Oh, and all this is just my opinion, okay? Don't expect anyone to agree with me.

Welcome to the forum, too!

 

[S&W Rover]

I had a S&W 457 .45 do the same thing to me, many years ago. I sold it within a month...

I'd turn the SD9VE over to an experienced shooter to try a few things, like different ammo, different person's grip, etc. The range of issues that a semi-auto pistol COULD have wrong is fairly long, but most can be fixed pretty easily. If no solution, call S&W and send it back on their dime. They will fix or replace...

SD's are usually pretty reliable -- both of mine are excellent -- so it is worth figuring this out. But I agree, you have to have confidence in the weapon to keep it around for self-defense.

 

[ou1954]

Grip etc.

You are wise getting an experienced pistol shooter involved. Light polymer pistols are far more sensitive to weaker ammo loads and/or grip issues.

I see many references to grip issues, limp-wristing, etc. in various postings.

It probably doesn't merit a new thread but I wonder just how much the grip affects the actual action of these lighter weight guns.

I recently saw some super-slow motion video and it looked like the bullet had left the barrel before the muzzle moved up.

[Go here: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s[/ame] and run out to about 20 minutes for the super-slow-motion shots. Pay attention to the instant the gun fires. The video is all about recovery and re-acquiring a target during rapid fire. My objective is to see whether the gun moves significantly before the bullet departs.]

How would a gun behave if fired with no support at all?

Has anyone tried a "string-supported" gun to see how it affects the impact point? (I'm not sure how one would set up that situation, but I think one can come close. Clearly an un-support gun would react but how would that affect the impact position?)

The other variables, loads and bullet weights, I can clearly relate to, as they would affect slide action and what it does to the process of resetting the gun.

 

[SamMeow]

Could be you, ammo, pistol or a combination.
Give it a go with different ammo and if possible have an experienced shooter fire it too.
Something to do now is load the mags fully and let them sit about 4-5 days to break in the springs.
Did this with mine after a good cleaning and light lube. No FTF's, FTE's with about 1500 assorted rounds. Winchester (WB, SXZ HP), Fed AE, Hornady (Critical Duty, Critical Defense, Zombie max), PMC, Hertzers, Freedom Ammo reloads, Tula BrassMax, Tula steel case too.
The only ammo I stay away from is +P+.

It is possible to get a pistol with an issue. If the persist give S&W a call. Great customer service.

 

[fwrogg]

some success

went back to the range today and took some different ammo. I shot three times and had no issues, had my wife shoot and got a jam right away. Worked on her holding, stance, and what gloves she was wearing and after about 40 rounds got her to where she was able to hold it sturdy enough that it did not jam. The last group the slide actually locked open on the last round which was also a first for her. So some progress, now we just need a lot of practice and working with the gun as she is not able to easily pull the slide back to lock it. But all and all, I could see she was really pleased that she finally got it to work. thanks for all the great comments and suggestions.

 

[ou1954]

Grip etc.

went back to the range today and took some different ammo. I shot three times and had no issues, had my wife shoot and got a jam right away. Worked on her holding, stance, and what gloves she was wearing and after about 40 rounds got her to where she was able to hold it sturdy enough that it did not jam. The last group the slide actually locked open on the last round which was also a first for her. So some progress, now we just need a lot of practice and working with the gun as she is not able to easily pull the slide back to lock it. But all and all, I could see she was really pleased that she finally got it to work. thanks for all the great comments and suggestions.

Have a look at the video I posted a couple of entries up. It was made by an S&W associate shooter and was designed to coach folks in rapid fire and how your grip affects time to get back on target. I suggested scanning forward to about the 20 minute point which shows nice slow motion video of the gun movement when fired with different grips.

I referenced the video and suggested that grip might not have much effect on aim and posed the challenge for someone to fire a gun with "zero" support to see how much it affected the impact point.

Now, with request to your experience, it seems pretty clear (looking at the end of the video, starting at 20 minutes), that grip could have a great effect on the action of the slide and the extraction and re-loading a round.

I am still on the fence about how much grip affects accuracy but I'm now on the side of those who say that grip can indeed affect what the slide does or fails to do.

There is another physicist on this forum, from Oklahoma, and I hope he will add his thoughts to this thread. We have already exchanged notes on the effect of torque caused by the spin of the bullet.

I'll PM him to be sure he picks up this post.

 

[OKFC05]

Mike Seeklander has a good video on this.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCfHYdyhw0[/ame]

A good "grip" goes all the way back through your arms into your chest and shoulders. Just squeezing the gun harder does not do it.

I am still on the fence about how much grip affects accuracy

I have done the "pistol on a rope through the trigger guard" and the gun moves about .020"" before the bullet is clear. (Consistent with conservation of momentum calculation).
A semi-auto does NOT eject the cartridge and the pistol spins most impressively.
This shows 2 things:
1. The grip is everything in getting the pistol to reliably cycle.
2. Letting the gun spin affects the POI only slightly (high), and all the "low" or "low and left" is purely the shooter moving the gun just before it fires. Which is exactly what my first pistol instructor told me decades ago. If the gun is reliable and accurate from a ransom rest, "it's not the gun's problem."

 

[ou1954]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8ZRlkdWVc[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-fG21XG_o[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv9GgBpWCF0[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSiOq_uvCmg[/ame]

 

[ou1954]

Grip

I have done the "pistol on a rope through the trigger guard" and the gun moves about .020"" before the bullet is clear. (Consistent with conservation of momentum calculation).

A semi-auto does NOT eject the cartridge and the pistol spins most impressively.

This shows 2 things:

1. The grip is everything in getting the pistol to reliably cycle.
2. Letting the gun spin affects the POI only slightly (high), and all the "low" or "low and left" is purely the shooter moving the gun just before it fires. Which is exactly what my first pistol instructor told me decades ago. If the gun is reliable and accurate from a ransom rest, "it's not the gun's problem."

Well, now you have two votes that the bullet goes where the gun is pointed when it fires.

I don't want to say anything negative about all the charts which say they show the impact error says something about grip errors, but I am in agreement with the notion that the bullet goes just where the barrel is pointed* when the gun fires. (give or take the extension of that ~.020" barrel movement when the bullet is still in the gun)

*[If the sights are accurately set the bullet goes where you aimed it.]

There are ballistic charts easily available which show bullet drop based on the load, etc.

I sort of thought that OKFC05 had done that "un-supported" firing test and he has. Also, he computed barrel movement based on Newton's first law.