I need to hire a lawyer - am I missing anything?

[rburg]

Ok its time to fish or cut bait. The corrupt city where I live wants my house. I'm too old to be homeless and living under a bridge. They've said they don't want to use eminent domain, but I don't trust them. They want to build a firehouse here. I've got 3 lots, its on a corner, and its very convenient. They also want the property next door, but its been up for sale since the criminal next to me went away to the big house.

I don't want to move, but we have some repairs we need to make, and I don't want to spend the money painting and roofing the place if I'm not going to get it back. I understand everyone wants top dollar for their place when they sell, forced or not. And with them building a high dollar condo across from me, I'm probably going to be looking at a huge valuation increase shortly (and the corresponding increase in property taxes.) I have no experience dealing or negotiating with government entities. All I know is I hate them.

So what I guess I need to do is find and hire an experienced attorney, one who does that kind of negotiating. I see multiple problems in my future. First and foremost is the amount they're willing to pay me. Followed closely by when they'll pay it. My wife can't understand that last. But if they won't close the deal for 5 years, I'm sitting in limbo that entire period. Can't sell to anyone else, don't have the money in hand to buy another place (I could get a loan, but I plan on being unemployed, permanently.) If I agree to a value, then the inflation monster goes wild, I won't get the same purchasing power.

Anyone know how these deals work out? Is there any vehicle or method to use to come out at least even, if not ahead?

 

[JOERM]

You mentioned something about this a few months ago, I really feel for you Dick. I would go crazy to say the least. I am of no use as for any advise, just someone who cares about you and your family.

Must be some fire house they want to build.

Joe

 

[max]

I would suggest you find an attorney who has experience working for your city or a similar one. The local hotshot who I would call, previously worked for the city and knows all of the loopholes, etc. Since leaving the city, he now represents developers and people in a situation such as yours.

You can talk to other attorneys and see who they would recommend. You could call my son, but when I ask him for legal advice he always says " I didn't take that class."

 

[Racegunner]

Sounds like you know what complications could ensue. I would try to find an attorney who specialized in corporate real estate in the past. Having an attorney out of his realm of expertise is as good as not having one. You should expect to come out ahead on this deal financially ... it's your sacrifice. Good luck!

 

[DeathGrip]

Get your story out amongst the town. The powers that be don't need the bad publicty. Just saying it could be helpful to begin to stack the deck. Make your house look real good from the street. Call an attorney soon,time is not your friend.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Sounds like they want to negotiate a price based upon today's fair market value, but not close the deal until some unspecified future date. Great deal for the city, but potentially not so good for you.

Suggested alternatives:

1. Try to require the city to agree to buy at the appraised fair market value on the actual date of the transfer, plus relocation expenses. Make sure that a certified and independent appraiser does that appraisal (not someone having ties to local government). Don't hesitate to spend a few hundred on an appraisal yourself, if you think the appraisal is too low.

2. Try to get the city to purchase the property right now, at today's fair market value plus a reasonable amount for relocation expenses, then rent it back to you for $1 per month with a requirement that they give you 3 to 6 months notice to vacate when they get ready to proceed with their little project. This way you have the cash to invest, and you can start looking for another home to buy with plenty of time to make the transition smoothly. And in the meantime you might be able to force your new landlord to put a new roof on your house (many states have laws that require a landlord to maintain a dwelling in "habitable" condition).

My observations of eminent domain cases and condemnation proceedings have convinced me that a single property owner simply will not prevail in such an action; they are going to get your property. I have known a few people who have gone through such proceedings, and I have been told that it is not unusual to get fair market value for the property plus an additional 10 to 20% for relocation expenses.

They are going to play hardball with you, and with every other affected property owner. They have started with a first offer that is highly favorable to the city, but they know that if you dig in your heels and force an eminent domain action in court that it will take much longer and be much more expensive for the city to prevail. So, they are probably very likely to negotiate much more favorable terms for you to avoid court proceedings and expenses.

A few hundred dollars now to retain an attorney, and generate a little correspondence on the attorney's letterhead and into the city's files, would be money well spent in my opinion.

Also, a few hundred dollars spent now for an independent appraisal will provide you with a benchmark for the negotiations.

You've been handed a sack full of lemons; it might be time to see just how much lemonade can be made. You're not likely to be able to keep your current home, but you should be able to maximize the compensation that you will be receiving.

Good luck.

 

[Jetstream]

Man oh man, bummer! Definately get an attorney! Maybe you can even have it stipulated that the city pays for the attorney fees. Also, if they plan on sitting on it for years, then have an inflation clause in the contract. Lastly, try and get some kind of a failure to complete clause where they have to pay you a penalty for not going through with the deal.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court ruled that your land can be taken even if the city wants to build a Walmart there!

"The Court further held that the use of eminent domain to promote economic development is constitutionally acceptable under the Fifth Amendment."

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/eminentd.htm

GOOD LUCK with this one!

 

[em-man]

I'd look up the folks who beat Norwood and Rookwood Commons, across the river from you. Their lawyers might not practice in your town, but they sure know a lawyer that does.

 

[ThirtyAcres]

In 1989, I was freshly divorced after 17 years of marriage. I was raising my 10 year old daughter alone and barely making ends meet.

I bought an old rundown house and spent 18 months making it into a new home.

Six months after moving in, I received a registered letter informing me that the city intended to take my house and lot for a new city library.

Offered me what they termed fair market value. If this offer was not accepted, the process of eminent domain was to begin.

I consulted an attorney who specialized in this area of law. He said he would be glad to represent me but all I would be able to accomplish would be to delay the inevitable and unleash the wrath of the city.

I tried fighting the condemnation order on my own. I was threatened with visits from code enforcement and other city inspections.

I was informed that the city had the right under eminent domain to place the monetary offer for my house in escrow, raze my house and lot and start library construction. I was told that it would be years before I got my money.

I intended to plead my case before the zoning commission. I showed up and was informed that the hearing had been rescheduled for the night before. Sorry, they said, didn't you get the letter?

The only thing that got their attention was when I informed them that I intended to appear on a local TV consumer advocacy segment. I was hoping to use the single-dad being evicted by the heartless city bureaucracy angle. I had grand visions of my daughter crying on cue for the cameras.

The TV segment never happened. The city agreed to pay my appraisal and not theirs. A difference of 18K.

I did not win. Bottom line was that I was forced to move out of a house that I built with my own hands. It truly sucked to see the dozers destroy something in a half-day that took me and my dad 18 months to build.

If I had it to do over, I would have tape recorded every visit and phone call from the eminent domain nazis at city hall. Government officials should never be allowed to threaten and intimidate honest taxpayers.

I was always under the impression that eminent domain was to be used for interstate highways, railroads, and airports.

Not for city buildings that could be built somewhere else in a location that didn't create hardships on existing property owners.

 

[bettis1]

Dick,

Lots of good suggestions in LoboGunLeather's post. Read them again...and again.

In my city and in most, there are individuals who practice entirely in the realm of negotiating with the City Government and various departments to secure proper zoning, permitting, etc. You can usually find these folks and get a good feel for the rapport that they have by observing several City Council meetings if they are televised or by checking with the Planning and Zoning Department. A call to your County Bar Assoc. may also give you some names which fit your specific needs. When you find one who appears to have the credentials that you are comfortable with, make an appointment with them and do an interview just as though you were hiring them for any job. That appointment is usually at no, or little cost and should help you to determine their knowledge of your problem area and also see if there is a comfort level between the two of you.

These things are like any negotiation, there are lots of twists and turns before the final bell rings. Don't lose focus of your goal and you will probably come out whole. The City may seem to be negotiating from the position of strength, but remember, bad publicity is the worst thing that any City Council wants or needs. That is your hole card. Don't play it too early and don't play it at all if just letting them know that you are aware that you have it will accomplish the same results. Cultivate any friends that you may have on the Council. Ultimately, the City Staff will act upon the action taken by the Council.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Bob

 

[rburg]

The worm is turning. I spoke with the city's real estate agent, the guy they hired to attempt to get me to sell. They're going to drop off a proposal. He also mentioned we can negotiate from there.

I put some of my cards on the table. My concerns over timing, that I wanted to build an addition, but of course wouldn't want to start until I find out what is going to happen. And I know the city has a state grant for $300,000 to acquire property for the firehouse - grossly inadequate. The city also has no money to bargain in good faith at this time. They'll have to apply for a state and/or Federal grant to build the thing. The real estate guy isn't seeing anything happening for about a year, maybe longer.

A lot of things I don't/didn't know. All new firehouses must be built with a "pull thru" design. No more backing firetrucks into garages. Its some kind of safety issue. And its why they need the large footprint. They also need enough land to also accomodate a EMT squad. None on our end of the city and outside the floodwall. The other site they were considering isn't for sale, either. And its church property so its going to be even more difficult to obtain.

The net effect is I'm on hold with my life for a while. I can't buy a new house without money. I don't want another loan, and I plan on retiring so it would seriously compromise my ability to get one. Worse, I don't want to pull money out of my retirement savings to self finance a house.

 

[BarbC]

What about renting out the old house and using that income for a lease/purchase of another house where you'd rather be?

 

[Bullet Bob]

Dick, there's no trusting my memory, but didn't you have a post a few years back about a bad wreck near your house, and how that road had some really bad spots? Doesn't seem that would be ideal for fire trucks.

 

[Farmer17]

The market is way down right now so you won't get as much money as you would have a year ago, so maybe an attorney can get you market value appraisal at the peak housing market time. I wouldn't worry too much, most people I know come out pretty good if they have a good lawyer and don't let themselves be bullied around. Also, call several moving companies and get the absolute highest three bids on moving everything and log every single one of your relocation expenses.

 

[nisamo]

I had a rental house in the way of progress. It was worth about 75k and the city's first offer was 92k. worked out smooth.

 

[bamabiker]

About 6 years ago the state of Alabama decided they wanted to build the Northern Beltline around Birmingham. One of the off ramps was going right through our house. They told us they would contact us when it got closer. Two years later 3 women showed up at our door to tell us they would have 2 appraisals done and would come up with an offer from there. They said we had 90 days to find a house comparable to ours. If we could not find a house we would have to ask for an extension and we must be able to show that we had been trying to find a house. They explained that they would give us fair market value for the house and relocation money and have a moving company move us. They said the house we found would have to be inspected by them and that they would not give us the money but would come to the closing and give the check to the lawyer. Long story short, it did work out OK. We already had a couple of appraisals done and the offer plus relocation money added up to more than we could have sold our house for. The bad news was when we closed on all this we owed about $2500 on our old house. It was about to be paid for. Of coarse the next house was bigger and nicer so it will be a while before it is paid for. Good luck with your situation.

 

[bk43]

Be real nice to Mama. Wimmuns can get real upset over these types of things. And best of luck...seems like good advice from others here.

Bob

 

[Marshwheeling]

There are lawyers who specialize in land-use issues (typically former or current municipal lawyers), and lawyers who specialize in eminent domain. Sometimes they do both, but for the most part they stick with one or the other. You need an eminent domain specialist, and the one you need is the one who can get you the best appraiser. The best appraiser is the one with the best track record for giving testimony on behalf of landowners at trial.

If you have a specialist on your side who knows how to get effective appraisal testimony out of the best appraiser, you will get the best offer from the city before you go to trial, perhaps even before you push them to the point of an eminent domain proceeding.

 

[ancient-one]

This won't help but does prove the landowner can win. A friend of mine had her farm cut in two by a four lane highway. They would not pay what she considered a fair price. She took the State all the way to the State Supreme Court and got what she wanted plus all court costs and attorneys fees.

 

[7.62foryou]

I wish I could help you. I have no experience in this. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope this turns out in your favor. I can see me in this nightmare someday. My house and surrounding property I own are in a very desirable location. If some hotshot comes along and wants to built condos or whatever they'll be coming after me. My only ace is the protected flowers (ladyslippers) that are all over my property. Any chance you could "find" protected plants or animals on your property? That might slow things down some, studies and such. Good luck!