I ordered a M&P9 and now I read about all the accuracy issues. Wonderful!

[kris7047th]

I love all of my M&Ps. But why not take really good when you can and make it better/great ? It's done on Glocks and other makes. Look at all of the after market parts for the Ruger 10/22's. I personally don't see anything wrong with customizing when you can take a really good gun and modify it to tailor it to serve you better. I have had both .. my 9c and my Shield modified with ATEi sears to lower the trigger weight (I have weak fingers from old injuries) Doug also shortened the preset ony 9c and cleaned the action on both guns. This will enable me to shoot more confidently should I ever need to.

http://www.ateiguns.com/

I have seen what the new site will look like and it is awesome. Doug is still working on it and he will have a lot to offer to improve on the M&P's and Glocks. Check the pics in his photobucket account.

 

[C4IGrant]

I just really don't understand why a couple of gun snobs from M4C think they need to come here and tell everyone they need a $200 custom barrel for their M&P9.

If you live on M4C then you need to go back home!

Is gun snob code for someone that knows what they are talking about??

I am not sure who said that everyone needs a $200 dollar barrel. My gun certainly did and made a HUGE difference. Your gun (and others) might shoot just fine. The thing you need to figure out is if it can actually hold a group at 25yds (or does it shoot a pattern).

How would you all respond on M4C if someone showed up there telling you that the M4 sucks and you need buy something I came up with to make it worth owning, because in my mind, I know what you need.

Well they might actually be right. The first question I would ask is, do they know more than me? Meaning, do they build and fix guns for a living? Have they seen 10 times the amount of guns that I have? Do they work directly with the manufacturer?

If the answer is yes to the above, then I would certainly keep an open mind and do some testing on my own to at least see if my gun exhibits the problems they list.

Not everyone needs a custom gun, or a custom barrel, if you are not happy with the M&P line don't buy it, but don't try to push your wants and needs on everyone else.

Next you will be telling us the M&P15 is not mil-spec, and we need to get some custom parts from you to make into what you think it should be.

Very true. I own bone stock Glock's, HK's, Walthers, 1911's, M&P 45, Sig's, etc, etc. The common theme with all these guns is that they all shoot UNDER 4" groups. Not the case with my 9mm M&P.

In regards to the M&P line of AR's, I am VERY familiar with them. Great gun for the money, but sorry to burst your bubble they are not Mil-Spec (meaning that they do not follow the Technical Data Package). With that said, I like what they are doing and the direction they are going. If you want to know more about their rifles, feel free to PM me for details on my involvement.


C4

 

[S&WOkie]

In regards to the M&P line of AR's, I am VERY familiar with them. Great gun for the money, but sorry to burst your bubble they are not Mil-Spec (meaning that they do not follow the Technical Data Package). With that said, I like what they are doing and the direction they are going. If you want to know more about their rifles, feel free to PM me for details on my involvement.


C4

I know the M&P15 isn't mil-spec, that was my point.

No bursted bubbles here.

 

[RockBottom]

My M&P9c at 25 YARDS .. Handgun class YSINTG 9/22/10

This was after 6.5 hours of class time at the end of the day, about 400 rnds down range learning the fundamentals.

The 9c isn't the model with the accuracy issues - it's the 9 that has the problems.

 

[mbliss57]

I sold my M&P .45 but not because it had any problems..I just like to buy and trade out a lot. Mine was a tack driver and I never had 1 problem with it. Bought it used. Great shooter.

 

[Lost Lake]

I wanna get in here before the thread is locked...

I don't look for the same accuracy in my SD semi-autos as I do in my revolvers, my range pistols or my long guns.

I kind of figure that a few inches at 45 feet (who in the world expects to use a self defense gun at 45 feet? But it happens...) isn't that big of a deal.

I think some of the slop is engineered in, a compromise, to make the gun more reliable in harsh conditions. In the mud, in the water, in the sand and without perfect lubrication, the gun should keep firing.

That is the most important aspect of a SD gun for me. 3" at 45' is acceptable if it keeps firing.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

That is the most important aspect of a SD gun for me. 3" at 45' is acceptable if it keeps firing.

I think many here would agree with that, but for those of us getting 3 times that group at the same distance, it's not that great. I've had and still have plenty of guns that have loose tolerances, especially in the slide to frame fit and they will still produce much tighter groups all while being 100% reliable.

 

[tparrack]

I thought there was an accuracy issue at first too. So i talked to my father in law who is ex military and police officer, so he decided to come with me to figure out what was going on with the gun. I let him shoot first when we got there and when i seen him shoot a quarter size 5 shot group I realized it was me and not the gun. Hopefully someday I will be as good of a shot as him!!
1`

 

[Desert Dog]

Ok, I remember seeing that scene in a Dirty Harry movie, Harry nailed him with his 44mag, I just got 2 of those for just such a situation, and I think the bad guy fell into the water...

My point, you used a movie scene to belittle me, I returned the favor since I thought you couldn't possibly be serious. Like I'm going to shoot the bad guy in the head while he holds a gun to my wifes head.. I may get my sniper rifle and take that shot, but I doubt it.

chill out.

Last post from me on this.

Clearly, your imagination is better than mine. I can assure you, that I was NOT thinking of a scene from a Dirty Harry movie, when I posted my example of a scenario where precison shooting might be required. Sorry, if you thought otherwise.

For me, I've used enough hostage targets at the range to know that I could (in theory) make the shot at closer distances. Having the guts to take such a shot is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish and remains an untested theory for me. Hoping I never have to use my precision shooting skills, and likewise pray that I have the fortitude required, if ever called upon to take such a shot.

 

[Desert Dog]

I think some of the slop is engineered in, a compromise, to make the gun more reliable in harsh conditions. In the mud, in the water, in the sand and without perfect lubrication, the gun should keep firing.

That is the most important aspect of a SD gun for me. 3" at 45' is acceptable if it keeps firing.

The Kalashnikov theory is reasonable, but it still doesn't explain why the FS9 is only pistol in the entire M&P pistol line exhibiting these accuracy issues. If all of the pistols have a little extra slop engineered in to enhance reliabilty, then it should logically follow that the FS9 is held to the same standards as its 9/357/40 sibblings. It's hard for me to believe that Smith would make the FS9 looser than all of the other pistols.

Whether 'acceptable accuracy' is 2" or 4" at 15 yards is a personal standard. The larger point here, is that the all of the M&P pistols do exhibit 'acceptable accuracy' for most shooters (as delivered), and compare very well/closely/nearly the same (in terms of accuracy) as Glock pistols offered at a similar price point, but the line's red-headed stepchild seems to provide a fair number of shooters with groups closer to the 6" to 8" range.

 

[M29since14]

I've had and still have plenty of guns that have loose tolerances, especially in the slide to frame fit and they will still produce much tighter groups all while being 100% reliable.

I have P229 .357 that is like that. It has been shot - a bunch. You can hold it in your hand and shake it and the slide will rattle around like pennies in a coffee can. It probably shoots into about 2-inches at 25-yards with common Remington 125-gr FMJ ammunition.

I don't know if lack of tight fitting is the issue with the M&P9, nor do I think it is related to twist rate. I am not sure how one could say the slower twist accounts for about an inch of lost accuracy. I'd like to know more about that.

When one speaks of fitting, even tightly fitted pistols (like a Les Baer .45) are not "tight" in the sense that a toolmaker is used to. Any gun has to have some room to run, to get dirty, to heat up and cool down, etc.

My Premier II may have about 0.003" clearance at the hood. I have a 1911 Pro 9mm that has about 0.008" there. Other barrel fitting measurements are similar between the two guns. The Baer never throws a wild shot. The Pro usually throws one round wild in a 5-shot string, sometimes two. (Not necessarily the first or last shots.) Sometimes the Pro will shoot one or two nice groups, and then it will go back to throwing a wild shot. When it does throw one out, it is consistently high and a bit left.

Is that wild shot a matter of the hood fit? It certainly could be. Would I be willing to bet a small some of money on it? Probably not. You might fix that and find you still have a problem. It could be a combination of any of a dozen or more other things.

Pistols are simple things when you are not expecting too much from them. When you start to raise the bar, they suddenly appear to become a bit more complicated. At my age and with my vision, could I get along with a pistol that shoots into 3-inches at 45-feet? Yes, but that is not what I really want on my belt. What I want is 1-inch per 10-yards. (And of course I also want to be able to shoot that well every day I pick up that pistol and ammunition.)

You won't win a bullseye match shooting like that, but you won't go home in disgrace, either. 4-inches at 25-yards is a long way from that. To expect 4-inches from any quality, duty-size handgun seems pretty reasonable to me. I've had dozens of guns that would do that. If that is more than you need, that's OK - I am glad you are happy! All I am trying to say is, in my opinion, if the pistol builders are doing a really good job, that 4-inches/25-yards thing is not at all out of line. I'd take that in a duty grade gun and not complain too much, but I am looking for more. Less is not really an option.

 

[kozmic]

Turbo, while I truly appreciate your concern for my wife's safety, please rest assured that I have devoted my life to the defensive safety of my family and others. I'm pretty sure posting targets will do nothing to confirm that fact. I have higher level black belts in two disciplines of karate and instructed hundreds in close quarter self defense (including many sailors) for over 22 years.
2" patterns from a bench at 25 yards means dick in real life survival. No disrespect intended but shooting at paper is meaningless if you are unable to properly, effectively and immediately handle a true life threatening situation. I'm not belittling the need for an absolute understanding of whatever weapon you rely on for defense. It's vital but not the paramount factor for survival.
In a ten foot confrontation with or without a handgun, I believe my wife would rather be with me than pretty much anyone else on this planet (with the possible exception of one of my boys). And, for the record, in many ways, I, her (as she's a bit of a badasss in her own right).
In my circle, if I say I trust my 9c most who know me would consider that a pretty good endorsement. But please feel free to do anything you see fit with any of my posts.
BTW, my charming bride found your post quite humorous!!!
Have a safe day!

 

[SurgicalShark]

I am regards to the OP, it's the shooter not the firearm, coming from post LEO and carrying Glocks for many years one of the most important lessons I have learned from switching to the M&P is having to readjust my trigger pull. Since I was issued combat tupperware I have found most if not all of the polymer frame pistols are like holding a 2x4 in hand, and had to shoot as such. Once I held the M&P it fit differently in the hand and felt better as well. With different or better hand position comes a change in the position of the trigger pull. With practice you will find that not only will it feel better, but you will become a better shooter. Just my two cents...

S&W M&P FS 9/357/40/45, 40PRO, 40C, 22LR

 

[Desert Dog]

I am regards to the OP, it's the shooter not the firearm <snip>

Were it so simple...

In the case of the FS9, there are too many experienced shooters posting here (and in other forums) about having accuracy problems, for me to believe this is just a shooter experience/practice problem. Some people here don't seem to have a problem with their FS9. That is fortunate for them, but that doesn't mean the ones who are having problems just need to learn the M&P trigger; especially, when those reporting problems own several other M&Ps that are shooting comparably tighter groups than their FS9 does.

Earlier in this thread Grant posted his results with Ransom Rest testing -- which completely eliminates the shooter from the test equation. What he reported:

"For the record, my personal M&P FS 9mm shoots 7-8" groups (from a Ransom Rest) @ 25yds."

It ain't the Indian...

 

[turbo38gn]

Ok... made it to the range finally early evening... Took 4 guns,new to me M&P9FS, 9c and 9mm Shield.... and older Model 39-2.... Mainly shot the full size at just over 25yds... it has a production date of 04\11 with the fired shell envelope. Shot about 50rds, off a rickety old table with a rifle rest made out of 1"-4" pine with a V cut into it for the barrel. Ran a box of WWB.

Basically, I got what I believe is acceptable to me, 3"-4" groups out of a gun that has a site that covers the bullseye, looking through 58 year old eyes that can't see the sights without putting one of those little eye patches with a pin hole in it to look through on my glass lense. I noticed the rear sight was way over to the right, not sure why but that was where my first mag of ammo went... I had to compensate for that, but decided, it didn't matter as I was looking for groups.. bottom line ANOTHER FINE SHOOTING M&P FOR ME.. 2 of the 5 mags I shot had 3-4" groups... and I'm really not much of a shooter, but can get lucky now and then. If I had more time I would have shot 7 and 15yds. Also, my patience level for target shooting is about 30 seconds. ADD is not fun at my age... maybe tomorrow I'll get some more time to play..I want to adjust that rear sight next time.

Almost forgot... that was also with the craapy Mass 10lb plus trigger..

another edit... I just adjusted my rear site and also dug out the targets and put a ruler on the 2 groups... I'm sorry, making a guess of a measurement isn't always accurate.... sorry if I misled anyone with the 3-4" spread. It really was 2.5" on one and 3" on the other...

 

[taseal]

I'm a little worried now. I hope my 9pro performs like it's supposed to! It's a brand new pistol, with a 'newer design' mag plate.

Makes me wonder if this is a reason why I shoot my little pf9 better (more accurate) compared to my mp9c

I've gotten sub 2" groups out of my mk23. Just saying

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[125JHP]

... let me post one of my targets

oh wait... that's not my M&P... ...but it is what I expect out of S&W

 

[125JHP]

Here it is...

not quite the same, eh?


now, about that hostage scenario....

 

[srice425]

heres what my new fs 9mm did at 25 yd. seems decent to me and some of the spread was my fault. i think its a great gun. with the factory sights, i doubt i could do much better and even if, i doubt ill ever have a self defense situation at that distance.

 

[125JHP]

That 25yd group looks good enough- There is nothing wrong with that gun or the hand holding it.